Mormonism's doctrine of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit deviates significantly from orthodox Christianity, presenting a pantheistic view of God's omnipresence and defining the Holy Spirit as an impersonal force rather than a divine person. The sermon critiques the Mormon concept of Godhood, explaining that it requires a physical body and marriage, and that even angels and men are considered part of a single, evolving race. It further exposes the Mormon belief in an eternal Heavenly Mother and the limited salvation prospects for women, who are primarily seen as future mothers of spirit children. The sermon also scrutinizes the historical accuracy and theological underpinnings of key Mormon events and figures, including Joseph Smith's first vision, the angel Moroni, and the baptism by John the Baptist, suggesting inconsistencies and fabrications within their narrative.
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out of Mormonism immediately. They went through, they didn't want to expose themselves to any of the wrath of the priests or anything, so they just didn't say anything about it. They just disappeared in the woodwork. They just don't want to be identified. But that is true because we know these people and they've told us and confirmed the fact that this is exactly what they went through. So that book is available back there. The book just referred to is called What's Going On in Here? Exposing of the Secret Mormon Temple Ritual by Rob Witt, W-R-N-T-T-E and Gordon H.
Frazier. This book is available through Gordon Frazier publishing. Theo, box five zero seven six, Eugene, Oregon, The cost of this book is two dollars. Other books by Gordon Frazier available at the same address, all for two dollars and twenty-five cents a piece, are his Mormonism Christian, subtitled Mormon Doctrine Compared with Biblical Christianity. Another Joseph in the Golden Plate. subtitled A Close Look at the Book of Mormon.
Third, Sects, S-E-C-T-S, of the Latter-day Saints. Now, so much for the doctrine of God, the Father. Incidentally, their first item of faith, their first doctrinal statement is this. We believe in God, the eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost, which sounds like a trinitarian statement. But when they say that, knowing what they believe, I always say, all right, what do you mean by God? What do you mean by Father? What do you mean by Jesus Christ? What do you mean by the Holy Spirit? Because they don't believe orthodox doctrine in any of these points.
Now, I want to give you their concept of the Holy Spirit. These are from the... from a book by the name of gospel doctrine by a man by the name of Joseph F. Smith, who would be a nephew of Joseph Smith, the prophet, the son of Hiram Smith, who was executed at the same time as Joseph Smith was. He makes this statement, The Holy Ghost, as a person needs of spirit, can no more be omnipresent in person than can the Father or the Son. They do not believe in the omnipresence or the omniscience or the omnipotence of God.
But by his intelligence, his knowledge, his power and influence over and through the laws of nature, he is and can be omnipresence throughout all the works of God, which is pure pantheism. Then she makes this statement. It is not the Holy Ghost who in person lighteth every man who is born into the world, but it is the light of Christ, the Spirit of Truth, which proceeds from the source of intelligence, which permeates all nature, which lighteth every man and fills the immensity of space. You may call it the Spirit of God, you may call it the influence of God's intelligence, you may call it the substance of his power.
No matter what it is called, it is the spirit of intelligence that permeates the universe and gives the spirit of man understanding, just as Job said. There is a spirit in man and the inspiration of the Almighty, give us an understanding. Now that's their concept of the Holy Spirit. Some have gone further than that. In Brigham Young's, or in Joseph Smith's section one thirty-two in the Doctrine and Covenants, a man cannot become a God. unless he is married, he has to have a body, he has to be born into the flesh, be married, and have a wife or wives and children, and have them sealed to him in the temple before he can become a God.
Well, they say the Holy Spirit can't be a God because he never got a body, okay, by this line of reasoning of theirs. Now, here's a statement that clears up a lot of things when you think it through. Their concept of sentient beings of any kind. This is by a contemporary of Joseph Smith, one of his early theologians, Parley Crouch. And this is from his little book, Key to the Science of Theology. angels and men, angels and men, are all of one species, one race, one great family, widely diffused among the planetary systems, its colonies, kingdoms, and nations.
The great distinguishing difference between one portion of this race and another consists in the varied grades of intelligence and purity, and also in the variety of spheres occupied by each in the series of progressive beings. get these definitions. An immortal man possessing a perfect organization of spirit, flesh and bones, and perfected in all these attributes, in all the fullness of celestial glory, is called a God. An immortal man, in process of perfection, or quickened with a lesser degree of glory, is called an angel.
an immortal man in progress or an immortal spirit of man not united with a fleshly tabernacle that is one of these spirit beings that is born through the heavenly father and heavenly mother is called a spirit an immortal man clothed with mortal tabernacles is called a man it then may be then consistently enough be said that there are in a subordinate sense a plurality of gods or rather of the sons of god although there is one supreme head who is over all and through all and in all his sons by the spirit of his power. Jesus Christ and his father are two persons.
In the same sense as John and Peter are two persons. Each of them has an organized individual tabernacle embodied in material form and composed of material substance in the likeness of man and possessing every organ, limb, and physical part that man possesses. There is no more mystery connected with their oneness than there is in the oneness of Enoch and Elijah or of Paul and Sadduce. Their oneness consists of a oneness of spirit, intelligence, attributes, and knowledge of power. If Enoch, Elijah, Abraham, Peter, Paul, and millions of others are to attain the immortal life and their fleshly tabernacles be quickened by the fullness of celestial life and light, intelligence and power, then it can be said of them, they are one, as my Father and I are one.
It can be said of each of them, in him dwells all the fullness and powers and attributes of the eternal God. Or, in other words, he possesses endless life together with an intelligence, knowledge, light, and power, which of course is uh... utterly false they have no concept of the difference between spirits and gods demons for that matter demons were spirits who were rejected uh... didn't get body uh... this is all as part of the system and they just believe this they don't think in terms of of the distinction between names on a man for instance uh...
when uh... joseph smith was receiving his revelations the first revelation that he received, supposedly, the accepted form of it, when he was a boy of fourteen, he went to the sacred grove on their father's farm to pray and to find out which of the churches he should join. He said that at that time there was a revival meeting going in town, the Baptist and the Methodist and the Presbyterians were having a united meeting. and we found this historically true, but he wasn't satisfied that he should join any of them.
And so he went to pray, and as he prayed, the figures appeared above him in the air, Father and the Son, as two separate beings of flesh and bones. And the older of the two said to Joseph Smith, confirming the other one, this is my beloved Son, hear him, which of course is identifying then as the biblical father and son. Now, there's only one problem with that vision. There are these four stories of the vision, one of them in Joseph Smith's own handwriting, in which he only saw one figure in the air above him. The final one gives us this particular one.
This is the one the church accepts today. The only problem is this. The revival meetings didn't happen until four years after the date that Joseph Smith stated he saw the vision. And as a boy of fourteen, he was nothing but a vagrant around the country. We have some of the record. He was under house arrest. The judge took him into his own home for vagrancy and kept him there for a while while he was fourteen years of age at the time he supposedly got this vision. Three years later, the angel Moroni appeared to him in his in his bedroom. First there was a suggestion of light and then the whole room became illuminated brighter than the noonday sun and the figure appeared and announced himself that he was Moroni, one of the old prophets.
And we identified him in the book of Mormon as being the last writer in the book of Mormon, the one who got the golden plates together and translated into the Book of Mormon. Well, Moroni came as an angel, but he was actually a man in history, in the history of the Book of Mormon. He was a man, not an angel. Now he appears as an angel and gives this message to the prophet. Incidentally, the prophet had eighteen different visions of beings coming through him, angels and so forth. One of the most interesting was when they were translating the Book of Mormon.
He and Oliver Cowdery, his scribe, were writing, and they came across a portion that spoke of baptism. So they went down to the Susquehanna River to pray about it. While they were there, the angel John the Baptist appeared to them and spoke to them out of the bushes and told them to baptize each other. And then he ordained them to the Aaronic priesthood. Now, they have a statue of John the Baptist with his hand on the top of the heads of these two kneeling figures, Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith, they're underneath, and he is ordaining that fulfillment of this statement of Joseph Smith.
I was looking at it one day when I was there, and one of the attendants came up and he said, are you interested in this? And I said, yeah, I have a question. And when did John the Baptist get his head back? Well, the man, of course, thought I was very irreligious, and he, with a hunch, walked away. He didn't want to talk to me anymore. But in the first place, I was going to ask him, why didn't John the Baptist baptize him when he was right there, instead of baptizing each other? Then it would have been quite an experience. Of course, the only thing is, Oliver Cowdery, who defected from the church soon after, in fact, he came into...
a real squabble with Joseph Smith over money matters. And he was given a walking sentence, told to get out of there and be gone before morning, and he went. He made, in his defense, believing the Church of the Latter-day Saints, he said he was very interested at the time, or later on, when he met Brother Rigdon to notice how much John the Baptist sounded like Sidney Rigdon. And indeed it was Sidney Rigdon, standing in the bushes. And he appeared on several occasions like this as an angel. Of course, Joseph Smith had a way of mesmerizing folks and making them think they were seeing visions anyway.
So much for that. Angels are partly in their exaltation to godhood. going back to John the Baptist, he wouldn't have any authority to ordain anyone. He wasn't even a priest. While he was of a priestly family, he couldn't have been a priest because in the wilderness he ate locusts and wild honey and wore a garment of skin about his lawns. Well, a priest could never use anything next to his flesh but linen. And he couldn't eat hummus. So John the Baptist was disobeying two of the rules of the priesthood. So he wasn't a priest. And of course we know he didn't appreciate as a priest. That wasn't his ministry.
They make him one of their great priests. Now, I want to read this. Concerning the heavenly mother. Implicit in the Christian verity that all men are the spirit children of an eternal father is the unusually unspoken truth. that they are also the offspring of an eternal mother. The doctrine that there is a mother in heaven was affirmed in plainness by the first presidency of the church. Mortal persons who overcome all things and gain an ultimate exaltation will live eternally in the family unit and have spirit children, thus becoming eternal fathers and eternal mothers."
So when I speak of the eternal mother or the eternal father, you can see how it is qualified in their personal beliefs. Now, we're jumping ahead just a little bit. I'm going to give you this in case some of you may not be here later. There is no provision in Mormonism called the salvation of women as individual. Oh, they never thought about it. Of course, until the Smith day, what was her woman? She was chattel. Peter Kimball, the grandfather of the present president of the church, had forty-two wives, and he referred to them as his cows. That's about how much they thought about the women.
Now, the only way a woman can be saved is to be married to a Mormon in good standing and be sealed to him in the temple, one of the twenty-five temples throughout the world. It's the only way a woman can be saved. when she is exalted to heavenly motherhood in the celestial region with her eternal father, her father who is an exalted man, their one occupation is to beget spirit children throughout eternity, that they may become mortals in human births.
So the dear lady who wrote this book, Mormonism, Mama and Me. She was a Mormon, born in a polygamous family, the granddaughter, great-granddaughter of John D. Lee, who had nineteen wives and sixty-four children, and she's a descendant of one of the sixty-four. She lives in Arizona, I know her well, a very dear person who is so sound in her doctrine that you won't find a flaw in her book. But she writes from the inside viewing a woman's loss in Mormonism. And she knows from the inside because all of her people are Mormons. She lives, incidentally, in a polygamous community in southern Arizona with her Southern Baptist husband.
A dear woman that has written charmingly, this book is charmingly written. But she brings out here that the only prospect a woman has in Mormonism if she is exalted to heavenly motherhood is to be pregnant throughout eternity. That's the only loss that she has. Now, if you want a book that will beguile your minutes and you'll learn a lot about Mormonism, Mrs. Geer's book is back there. It's a splendid book. I told you about this one. And this one is all doctrines. In my books, I have a plan for them.
This is a comparison between Mormon doctrines and Christian doctrines all the way through. with a few added portions. I have here about the persecutions we have about the Mormon buildings, the reorganized church, and so forth. And some of the matters of the Book of Mormon, but mostly this is a doctrinal book, and that's what it was intended for. It's right there. Then there's a little book here that I wrote because People were always asking you to make the question, who are the reorganized Latter-day Saints? And they're everywhere. You'll find that there's a church of their kind in practically every city in the United States of any size.
This has to do with the text of the Latter-day Saints. First, the reorganized church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which has its headquarters in Independence, Missouri, and then the polygamous text of Mormonism, of which there are about twenty. and probably a total membership of somewhere around one hundred thousand in the west of polygamous Mormons. That's what this book is. It's the history of the various sects of Mormonists. The young fathers, when they come to your door, they will present themselves as being members of the only church of Christ on the earth. The only one that has remained pure. When they do that, I say, which one of the sixty-four sects do you belong to?
Because there have been sixty-four different sects of Mormonism since the death of Joseph Smith. This is history. This little book has to do with the Book of Mormon total. The absolute philosophy of the presentations of the Golden Place and the Book of Mormon. That's what this book is. As distinguished from the other, which is all doctrine. Now this little paper is one that I just finished recently and got into shape so I could bring it east with me. This is a little exposition of what Paul was talking about when he said when they knew God.
Who was he talking to? Gentiles. What was the Gentile name of God down through history? We find that the Jews worshiped Jehovah. The Semites in general worshiped Elohim. Even the Muslims have their name for God, Allah, which they say is from Elohim, same term. The Gentiles didn't use either of these terms. They used the term the Most High God. Now in Daniel, when the Jewish men were talking to the Gentiles, they always referred to God as the Most High God or the God of Heaven or the High One and so forth.
When the Jews are speaking among themselves, they use the name Jehovah. When they're called to Gentiles, they use the Gentile name, the Most High. So this traces the name of the Most High God down from the time of the flood on down to the present. The interesting thing, we find the name of God in the language of practically every language, any tribe on the earth today. I've isolated at least thirty-five instances of it among the American Indian tribes in America. some of them so strikingly pure that you can say these are devout worshiping theists there's a tribe out at the mouth of the Columbia River I did some of my work up there for some of my studies I had as an informant an old man who is now gone he died at age ninety four a few years ago he became a Christian through a rather unusual experience up there in the northwest when one of their men, after missionaries had been there and gone because they just hadn't made any progress with the Indians, they couldn't figure out why.
But at that time, a certain Indian had a vision. He went into a coma as a result of an accident, and he got a visitation while he was in the coma. that the most high God had a son named Jesus who had died for the Indians. And if they believed on him, they'd have their hearts cleansed and then they could come to his place above. Well, I've always wondered where this man, to Squawson, a Squawson Indian, where he ever heard the name of Jesus. And in my research, I discovered that certain Catholic priests came through that part of the the country while he was a small boy and they baptized all the babies that they could catch and all the little boys and he was one out of them.
So he knew the name of Jesus, you say. And when he got into his vision, it was revealed to him, the missionaries never told him, but the Lord told him. Now this old man, dear old man, who learned a great deal after his conversion, he said, you fellows when you came, meaning the missionaries, He said, you didn't tell us that you're Jesus with the Son of our most high God. He didn't tell us that. You told us we worship the devil. We don't. We worship God. Then he gave me a prayer. I don't know whether I have anything that I've written here or not, but I can give it to you pretty well to faith.
And this was taught to him by his grandmother back in the day. the early days in about the eighteen forties and the missionaries hadn't reached that part of the country even then the old grandmother had learned it from her grandmother down on the columbia river way back in the eight seventeen hundred and the prayer goes like this oh thou great god may name his name We thank you for all the gifts that you send to us from above. We thank you for the rivers where the salmon can swim, for our food. We thank you for the forest where the deer can hide. We thank you for the sunshine. We thank you for all of the good gifts you send to us.
And in the second verse, O thou great high God, when you come by this way, take pity on us. Not because we are worthy, for we are most unworthy. Not because we are good, because our hearts are bad. But because you made us, and we need you, and take us at last to your home above. Now that is not a pagan prayer. That's a theistic prayer. And when this revelation came to him of the Son of the Most High God, there were hundreds of them believed. The qualifications were given. This man is told if he went back to his body, He could see his body lying on the table down there in the house, and there were daily dates sent into Olympia, Washington, for a casket to put it in, that you can go back to your body if you go out and tell the story.
And he did, and many others with him, including the old man that I knew very well. All right, this is on the distribution of the Gentile names of God, and it's pertinent to our lesson because Paul identifies God as the one whom they knew. Therefore, they were responsible. Now, in the introduction here, I've given the chapter on that very thing, Paul's statement, why he made it, and so forth. And then we have a lot of research on the Gentile names of God from the time of the flood on down to the present. Very interesting story. It's very dull.
The dullest thing I ever wrote. But... If you can sit down and read a couple of paragraphs at a time without going to sleep, then wake up and read a couple more paragraphs, and eventually you'll get the pictures. The pictures back there for your interest. We have a little time yet left. I want to give you their picture of Jesus Christ. Do we have time for questions as well? Oh, let's have the rest of the time and questions. And I'll deal with this, because this is a little lengthy. I'll give you this tomorrow night. The incarnation.
Do we have some questions? Yes. I was a little confused on this. I'll ask the question. If I don't ask you right, you can change it around. It seems as though Michael was an angel when he came a man. So that later on, therefore, man can become God, but in the process of man becoming God and becoming an angel, as Moroni did in his young baptism? That's a good question. The question is concerning Michael becoming Adam and Adam eventually becoming a God. Joseph Smith was a very careless reader.
And in his reading, he confused a lot of things, and he read in Daniel about Michael, the Archangel. And he also read about the Ancient of Days, the Chiefs, and so forth. He put all of these into the one figure of Michael. And then he deduced that this was Adam. And see, this crept into the ritual eventually that Michael becomes a man who is the God of this world. Now, of course, Adam has to go through all the processes to get back to the point of being our Heavenly Father and our Heavenly God through this roundabout system of becoming a man, getting the truth of the Mormon gospel, eventually dying and ascending.
and becoming a God in the next life with Eve and probably the otherwise that he had before he brought Eve to this world. Now, it's a very confused thing, but it's because of Joseph Smith's inability to understand the English grammar. So he confused these terms and made Michael the Ancient of Days, which of course is wrong. And then of course this makes Adam the Ancient of Days. And there are at least a dozen references to this in the book of the Doctrine and Covenants. In there, I can give you the documentation of it, but this is a very common thing. And this is where the whole doctrine of God being an exalted man develops.
It all develops out of the same syndrome of Michael, Adam, the Ancient of Days, so forth. It all just confused thinking on their part, and when they put it down in type, to us it looks very confused. They seem to think this is great stuff. But one writer has said that Joseph Smith made the biggest blunder when he formed a new religion in the age of the printing press. Because they printed everything that he said as being scripture. Now, tomorrow night we're going into the matter of... the philosophy of the restored church that they claimed that they restored the church in eighteen thirty that had been apostate for seventeen hundred years and there was no church on the earth when they started in and the father and the son appearing to joseph smith told him to form this new church all right another question so fraser when these men are faced with the argument that we would put against them about adding to the word the warnings given in the last chapter, but adding to this revelation.
They come up with this argument that the Bible that we have was God's message to treat them as he does, that the Book of Mormon is God's message to the West. Now, if that's what they claim, can you give us any idea of why the tract is spread the Book of Mormon worldwide today? The question has to do with the the matter of adding to the word of God, which of course includes the Book of Mormon and other writings. Their concept is what they call a continuous revelation. They make a statement in their doctrinal statement, we believe all that God has spoken, all that he is now revealing, and we believe that he will reveal many things yet concerning his purpose.
Scripture, of course, covers anything that they would want to have. Now you face them with this question, what about the book of Revelation when it says that if any man added to this record or deleted promise, he was a curse, the curses that are written in the book. They will immediately say, oh yes, but that's just talking about the book of Revelation. Doesn't mean the rest of the writings. Well, if that's so, they're still under condemnation because when Joseph Smith did his inspired version, that he called inspired version, in which he attempted to rewrite the King James version, he added copiously to the book of Revelation as well as the rest of it.
Wherever he found the passage that didn't quite coincide with their doctrines, he changed the text of Scripture. So their changing of the Scriptures by authority of this doctrinal statement, we believe all that God is now revealing and all that we believe that we will do in many things, yes, concerning the truth of God. Incidentally, the reorganized church of Jesus Christ of Validant Saints accepts this doctrinal statement. They say we believe in the continuous revelation. And in order to have something to put in their doctrine and covenants, they add all the minutes of the latest meetings of the church.
Whatever the prophet says, they put in there as inspired scriptures, as it inspires them to change Peter and John. Well, Peter, is it just as equally true that the reorganized church deleted some from the group of doctrines and covenants? They accept the doctrine and covenants up to the time just before it gave about section one thirty-two that called for polygamy. At that point, they cut off Joseph Smith's revelation. But they have added to that their own minutes since that time. So, but the interesting thing, they are the ones that published the inspired version of the Bible, which is so corrupt.
And the Salt Lake City Mormons continue with the King James Version. And of course the reason they're stuck with the King James Version is that they've quoted them thirty-nine hundred times in the Book of Mormon. In fact, there are twelve, there are twenty-two chapters from the King James Version of the Bible verbatim in the Book of Mormon. And the dates from they were inserted into the Book of Mormon was about four hundred and eighty BC. Now that's a good trick to quote King James Version in . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The people around them would recognize it as being the same language as their Bible, the King James Bible, if they have in their hands, which is really some adroit squirreling out of opposition. You're going to deal with that when we deal with the Book of Mormon and the anachronisms in the Book of Mormon, which is so full of them that it's fitted. So you have no hesitation, brother, in saying that these men are liars.
I have no hesitation in saying these men are liars. In fact, when you come down to it, Joseph Smith lied about the first vision. We know that because the dating of it. He lied about that. He lied about the angel coming to his room. He lied about the golden plate. He lied about the witnesses that say they saw and handled the golden plate. He lied in the last writings that he wrote, Pearl of Great Christ, by telling us that Abraham wrote this in his own hand upon papyrus, and he translated it into the book of Abraham, which is Pony as anything you ever read.
So there wasn't a thing that Joseph Smith did that he did honestly. He never told the truth. It was the characteristic of him, and this is true of them today. Everything they do They do by means of deceit. You'll find this in their presentation, everything they do. Even presenting their young elders in all of their pious garb and so forth. Holy young men, very elders indeed. That's my chief. I asked one up in Cleveland, Tennessee, the other day he came to my meetings there. I said, he married? No. I said, you haven't showed him? No, no. said, well, then you can't be an elder.
I said, why don't you take that badge off? I said, you can't be an elder because an elder is supposed to be the husband of one way and have a family that is responsible. Well, he said, not in our religion. If your religion isn't God in the first place, well, I'm just telling you that you have no right to call yourself an elder. But they were denied, of course, the polygamy situation. I had a And Franklin stepped in Boise, Idaho, as many years ago. He was bishop of the first ward, as they call it, in Boise. Now they have twenty-five wards in that town, sixty thousand, practically own the town. But he told me he had four wives.
He had one in Pocatello, Idaho, one in Boise, one in Lewiston, Idaho, and one in Spokane, Washington, because he traveled that in his business every month. He got around to all four establishes. I said, how is that fair with what Paul said to Trinity, that a husband can be the husband, a bishop must be the husband of one of them. He said, that's right, he says, at least not. Exactly. They don't like it when you tell them that they are of the father of the devil. I don't hesitate to do it if it's pertinent to the subject I'm discussing.
You go to Salt Lake City and they have an information center that costs them millions of doubts and they portray so many scenes of Mormonism from the beginnings in the first vision on down to the present or to the future state. For instance, they have one mural showing the prophets of God. And in that, you have portrayed Adam, of course, and Enoch, a very important person for them, Noah, Abraham, Elijah, Isaiah, Joseph Smith, Jesus Christ, Spencer Kim.
prophets of the Lord. He sent your kibble. He's the living prophet. None of them ever got prophecy through God. Yes? Just a question. I have a question. Excuse me. This scripture is back in the film. He said, if you're interested in God, you're not in the doctrine of Christ, you're not in the doctrine of Christ, you're not in the doctrine of Christ, you're not in the doctrine of God. They come to any of you that bring not this doctrine, but even in the eyes of your wrath, who they give them to us.
Or he that abides, did it in us to forsake us, or that evil did you do us. The question has to do with the portion of Second John about not allowing cultists to come into your house. This is a very vital statement and we're surrounded with some good instructions for dealing with these people. They will want to come into your house, obviously. I say this, for anyone who is not acquainted with their methods and who has no purpose in listening to them, of course the problem there is don't listen to what they say. That's what John is saying to his youth in that course. Don't listen to what they say and don't invite them in. Well, I say the same thing.
don't invite them in unless they have showed some inclination to listen to what you've already said. Now, what I tell people to do is this. You see them coming up to the door. You recognize them immediately. You can't miss them. They don't look like any two other persons in our culture. All right. Open the door before they get up there and step out and address them. Hello, fellas. I see you're a Mormon missionary. Don't hesitate to identify them. I know you want to tell me something. But before you do, let me tell you something. And then give them a salvation testimony with all the scriptures that you can let you come to, as long as you can think of anything to say to them, and keep pouring in at them as long as they will listen.
They'll want to get away. If they have any argument, then you can pick it up. Go ahead with it. If there's anything that's found that it's valuable, go ahead and regret it. But you don't need to let them in your house. I invite them in sometimes because somehow or other I have questions that I want to find out. Maybe I'm breaking this commandment, but I had two of them not too long ago. And they seemed interested because I had a testimony that they hadn't heard before. I said, why don't you come in? I'd like to talk to you. They seem to be willing to listen.
I took them into my study and I sat them in a position so that they could see in my book sheet a question about soul wives and like that of Mormon writers, their own as well as other people, by Mormonism. And they looked at that and dropped their chins, you know, and I kept talking to them like I didn't know what they were looking at. And I said, have you ever heard of the rapture? I just threw it right at them. No, what's that? So I read them, the scriptures concerning the rapture. I said, this is something that is yet to happen. It hasn't happened yet. But one of these days, I'll be gone.
And a lot of other people will be, be in the newspapers and everything else, and just be a tremendous exodus of Christian people from this earth. Then I said, you've been looking at that shelf of books. The moment you hear that I'm gone, you come in here, you can have all of those books. And they dropped their shins. They didn't know whether they wanted to take that bar to your neck. Well, now I had a purpose in that because I wanted to get through their thick skins to the point where they would realize that there was something to what I had. Now that, I suppose, is an excuse for violating that portion of your sentence, John, but don't do it as a matter of fact.
The best thing is to just not let them get inside and don't let them start in with very rich men. And when they come to the point, now they'll come to this point when they realize that, hence, they're saying wisdom. They will do what they call giving their, making their witness, which consists of this. They will put their hands on their chest and they'll say, I have a testimony of the Spirit. I know it's true. I have the burning in my chest that Joseph Smith is the prophet of God, and the book of Mormon is the word of God. And they don't change. They just cut themselves off on it with this subjective experience. There isn't a thing you can say.
I don't let them get through it. I say, wait a minute, Father. Don't purge it yourself. You don't know that this is so. You can't give me any tangible truth that this is so. Well, this kind of spoils the funders. I've had them do this right up in Salt Lake City, people that are high up in their organization. They come to the point where they want to cut you off. They can do this with me. Well, one fellow, the roll-aids would help. But anyway, this is the ancient story of the whole thing. And this, I think that answers your question. This is under. Can we have a few more now? The time gone. Time is gone, she says.
So we'll be real quick at this point and take it up tomorrow night. I have more questions. We want a lot of questions tomorrow night. That was our business.