Assorted,: CMML Conference 1992-01 ~ Really Know God Panel

Good morning, everyone. I would like to just introduce our panel members here and, uh, see if we're all in the right order. But to my far left is, uh, Clint Irvin, and, uh, he's originally from Glen Head, New York, Long Island, and, uh, he now lives in Fayetteville, Pennsylvania with his wife Jan, where they are actively involved in the work at Greenwood Hills. In addition to his uh, varied activities as manager of the camp, Clint also teaches and ministers in the local assemblies in his area. Then to my immediate left is Sandy McEachran. Incidentally, I think, Clint, this is the first time you're with us uh, as a speaker, and I know you've been here before, but we welcome you to this panel, and you're ready for all these questions, I trust. On my, to my immediate left is Sandy McEachran, and, uh, he's a former high school English teacher and was commended to the work of the Lord in nineteen eighty eight. and he and his wife Peggy live in Guelph, Ontario, and of course he's involved in, uh, teaching and itinerant evangelism, and, uh, he's been to many of our assemblies in this area in the past, I know. Then to my immediate right is, uh, Larry Batts, and he was commended from the Durham, North Carolina area in nineteen seventy three. and he and his wife Barbara and family now live in Greensboro, North Carolina, and we know that he's involved in the work of the Lord and, uh, teaching ministry and conference speaker. And to my far right, Rex Traga. He and his wife Nancy have been serving the Lord, um, in the Ituri rainforest in Northeast Zaire. They were commended to the work of the Lord in nineteen eighty three by the saints of Charlotte, North Carolina. They've returned to the States in October of last year due to the difficult situation in Zaire, as most of us are aware of. Now, I think many of us, uh, who have spent a number of years in assembly, uh, testimony in the area and other places, uh, we think of the evolving of how the service we refer to as the remembrance service or the Lord's Supper, or, um, the breaking of bread, we give it a number of names, but we've seen a, um, evolving of that meeting. I remember George Sharp saying he led the, uh, crusade to change that meeting from what many of us remember was later in the morning, perhaps at ten thirty, and it would conclude at twelve. And before that, we had a Bible study or Sunday school. And then a number of years ago, I guess maybe forty or so, uh, we moved that meeting forward to, many cases, nine o'clock, nine fifteen, and that went on till ten thirty. and then we came up with a family Bible hour. Now, we, many of us are concerned that we see a, perhaps we don't want to use a strong word, but a diminishing interest on the part of many, many perhaps are younger people who feel that they can skip this service or, uh, feel that they can come to the eleven o'clock service, and the, uh, emphasis on that morning meeting isn't as great as it seems to be at one time. And I think all of us must agree and acknowledge that, uh, someone has written a book, The Chief Meeting, and, um, this, uh, has a great, uh, deal of interest to most of us, uh, in fact, all of us in this room today. Now we're going to try and, um, discuss this a little bit, and, uh, our panel members have uh, been aware of some of the questions, and uh, we're thinking in terms of questions such as how to prepare for this meeting, if I can use that term, and we're going to try and differentiate the different uh, meanings of that prepare. And uh, can we overemphasize this meeting? Uh, is there a tendency to share things that happened to us during the past week, as opposed to centering on the, the main purpose that we're there to, uh, remember the Lord? Now, the first question that I'm going to present to the panel is a question that we want to turn to Ephesians chapter one, and we're going to take this verse and, uh, try and develop some questions for it. Maybe if you have your Bibles, you can refer along with us. Ephesians chapter two. 22. 22. Twenty two. Okay, one twenty two. Thank you, George. That's a question that did come from my brother Sharp. Ephesians one twenty two, and hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things in the church, which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all. Brother Larry, I'm going to ask you to maybe open up and, uh, comment on this verse and, uh, make some comments relative to our subject today. Well, looking at the verse in particular, I'm taking just a moment to read it because this is brand new. Brother George, this is your question. You should have answered it. Very... trust the question is, how do we become the fullness of him that fills all in all? Maybe I'll just repeat that for you. How do be- we become the fullness of him in all in all? Thank you, Brother George. The church, of course, as we know, has been given, as is mentioned time and time again, to our Lord Jesus Christ as the bride. Our Lord, uh, even mentions that himself in the gospel that, uh, all that thou hast given me I have kept, and he speaks on of that day onward, which would include us who are the church. But we're never to lose sight, as the passage shares with, uh, me, the we're never to lose sight of the fact that he is to be head over all the church. We are his body and the fullness of him that filleth all in all. All the fullness of the Godhead, bodily, was seen in our Lord Jesus Christ. And the same extent, uh, can be or should be radiated from us. John makes this statement, no man has seen God at any time, and uh, but yet in his epistle he makes the understanding that the revelation of God is seen in the body of Christ. George, I would take it in that sense of what you're saying. We reveal the fullness of God that was known through the church today. I'm trying to think of the association you're putting with it as far as the breaking of bread, but that is just one of the aspects that was in mind. Any other comments, or otherwise we'll move on to another question. What are some of the doctrines of Christ that we see in the Remembrance Feast, uh, Sandy? Maybe you can start out by explaining something, we'll get others to comment as we go along. What are the doctrines of Christ do we see in the Remembrance Feast? And I'm thinking in terms of, just to name one, his incarnation, and we can go from there. Well, if we can turn maybe to Luke twenty two. I think we could spend a fair bit of time speaking on some of the, uh, doctrines that are revealed in the Lord's Supper, but I'd like to read just a couple of verses here because this is where the Lord's Supper was instituted, and we see a couple of things that are central to it, some of the symbols that are central to it. In verse nineteen, the Lord Jesus Christ says in Luke chapter twenty two, and he took bread and gave thanks and broke it and gave unto them, saying, this is my body which is given for you, this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, this cup is the New Testament in my blood, which is shed for you. And then a little further on down, he, uh, in verse twenty four, Luke tells us there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest. I think it's worth our consideration before we comment on the doctrines to just think of that little phrase, uh, in connection with the Lord's Supper. It, it seems almost amazing that here were the Lord, here were the Lord's disciples and the Lord himself, and it was just a few short hours before he was going to, uh, be betrayed and be taken to the cross, and that hour to which all of eternity had looked forward to was almost upon us, and it was the greatest hour, perhaps, in the history of the universe. And the Lord was here and considering his passion and thinking of the things that were going to come. We read in John chapter twelve and verse twenty seven that his soul was troubled as he looked ahead to the things that were going to unfold, as he considered the loneliness that he was going to go through and the suffering. And it's unbelievable to read here that in the midst of all that, that there could have been a strife that arose among his disciples, which of them could be the greatest. It seems so incongruous and out of place, but I think it gives us a tremendous insight as to the purpose of the Lord's Supper. We are so prone to be caught up in our own things and to be interested in ourselves and our activities and our interests during the course of the week. And this is why the Lord, in his wisdom and grace, instituted the Lord's Supper, in order that we might get our eyes off of ourselves and off of the activities of our lives and to center them on the Lord Jesus Christ. And we ought to thank him for his wisdom in instituting that feast, because when I was younger, I used to, I don't know if I had that great of an understanding of the Lord's Supper, and sometimes I'd go, and uh, as a child, you'd daydream a little bit and poke your brother and things like that. Maybe you remember being that age, but I do remember specifically that you could not sit there for an hour without being brought face to face with the Lord and consideration of him, and that's what we need to get our eyes off of our own things and to consider him, and that's, I think, what the Lord says here, and it's important to notice what he says in verse nineteen: this do in remembrance of me. Let's turn over to First Corinthians chapter eleven for just a minute. We want to be centered on him and not thinking of our own things. And in First Corinthians eleven twenty three, uh, we find an expansion, uh, and teaching on this subject of the Lord's suffering in verse twenty three: for I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. When he had given thanks, he broke it and said, take, eat, this is my body which is broken for you, this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup when he had supped, saying, this cup is the New Testament in my blood. This do as often as you drink it in remembrance of me, for as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you do show the Lord's death till he come. Now, in answer to the question, um, not trying to be a politician and get out from answering the original question, what are some of the doctrines that are revealed? We read here, this do in remembrance of me. Um, I think any doctrine that is associated with the person of Christ is appropriate for the Lord's Supper. We have come there to remember him. We remember his perfect life, his moral glories and perfections that he revealed. We remember his mercy in withholding the wrath that we should have had and taking it upon himself there at the cross. We remember his grace in even coming to this, uh, sin benighted planet and, and to humble himself and to, to be here among us. We remember his glory that he revealed in the miracles that he performed while he was here. It's, when you come to the person of Christ, it's infinite. Mm-hmm. And any of these things, I think, is material that is worthwhile and appropriate for the Lord's Supper. I do think, however, that, um, one thing that we, we eventually are meant to come to is the Lord's death, and all of the doctrines that are associated with that, his substitution, the redemption that, uh, came about as, as a result of that, all of the, the benefits and the doctrines associated with the cross, because we read here, for as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you do show the Lord's death. We are to proclaim the death of the Lord, and I like that little hymn that we sing in the Lord's Supper, to Calvary, Lord, in spirit now our grateful souls repair, to dwell upon thy dying love and taste its sweetness there. Because I think, and we'll probably get into it with some of the further questions, is that on the cross of Calvary we saw displayed perhaps the greatest testament of the glory of God that we have ever seen. That's where God's glory shone brightest, and I think that's where eventually we need to find ourselves in the Lord's Supper, is at the foot of the cross and overwhelmed again with what our Lord Jesus Christ has done for us. I think also we need to be careful not to leave him on the cross. We read here that it's, it says you do show the Lord's death till he come. We serve a risen Savior, and it's appropriate for us to consider at the Lord's Supper his resurrection and the doctrine of his glorification, and uh, to remember where he is now and the glory which he has been glorified with. All of these things are appropriate, and in uh, connection with our opening comments by our commentator, um, if we're struggling for material at the Lord's Supper, it's definitely not because there isn't something to say about the Lord Jesus Christ. It's because it's a problem, I think, that lies with us. We just haven't taken the time to investigate all of the depths of the riches of Christ. He's infinite. There is no end to the things that we can come to that Lord's Supper about, and to worship him and glorify him, uh, by presenting these things back to him. So, uh, virtually any doctrine associated with Christ, either his life, his death, his resurrection, his glorification, I think that's what we come to remember at the Lord's Supper. Okay, are there any, I'm sure there could be other comments to add to that, uh. Rex, how, how do, uh, how do these things fit in with the people in Africa, say, uh, how would, uh, the remembrance of the Lord's Supper, uh, compare with some of the things we've been talking about? Do these people ent- can they enter into this type of a thing, or how do you, how do you bring this into a worship service? When we were in Zaire, we had a conference with Doctor David Gooding a few years ago, and we brought this very same question up to him. How can we emphasize what true worship is at the remembrance feast or the Lord's Supper? He said something that was very plain, you can't put in what is not there. Uh, we can't expect for some of the ones that we've been working with to really pour their heart out in genuine worship unless they've dwelt on the Lord Jesus Christ in their life. I think it's interesting that, uh, some of the experiences we've had in Zaire concerning death, that's very different than here. I remember when our Bible school teacher died, and we drove to Nyankundi and got there about eleven or eleven thirty at night, and all the family and friends from that area had met together in a little mud hut with the body right in the living room with us, and we were greeting the family, giving some consolation or comfort, and then later we left about one or one thirty in the morning. The family all stayed, and I understand that one of the family members said, okay, all the guests have gone, now it's just we, the family here. And they began reminiscing and remembering so many things about this brother who had gone into the presence of God. One thing after another, one remembrance after another, the whole time his death was right before them. I think of what we read in Genesis, Joseph speaking to his brothers, and ye shall tell my father of all my glory. I think of that little remembrance time when the Bible school teacher died. All the guests have gone. It's just the family here, and we start calling to mind remembrances that are precious to our heart of Christ, what he means to us, what he's done for us, always coming back to the climax. He died for us. Whether we dwell on his love, his dying love, on his care as a shepherd who gave his life for the sheep, the Lamb of God without spot and without blemish, who was crucified in our place. His joy, yes, that joy that was set before him, ca- enabling or causing him to endure the cross and the shame thereof. So we see that everything we remember about the Lord Jesus Christ, especially at a remembrance feast, always brings us back to the fact he died for me, he died for us. And it, uh, is true whether we're here in the United States or even in Zaire in a little mud building, remembering the Lord Jesus, that he died for us. Yeah, thank you. Clint, do you have it? We haven't heard from you yet. Do you have any things you might want to add to? I should have put you first, I think. It's kind of hard to, uh, finish up on a subject such as this, but, uh, did you have any comments that you wanted to make? My thoughts and what Sandy was saying, um, went over to Matthew seventeen where the Lord takes Peter and James and John up on that Mount of Transfiguration. And, um, Peter gives us a little inkling to the fact that he was more than just a fisherman, because he was overwhelmed by the sight of Moses and Elijah. And for Peter, uh, being a devout Jew, that was just a sight that, uh, defied imagination. And in verse four, Peter says to Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here. And it's difficult for us to gather around those emblems on Sunday morning without agreeing with Peter. It's difficult for us to look at the body that was broken for me, and the cup which contains a symbol of the blood that was shed for me, and not be overwhelmed by the fact that it's good for me to be here. But that wasn't the point of them being there. And before Peter can finish what he's saying, there's a voice from heaven that says, this is my beloved son. Hear ye him. This is the one we're to be occupied with. This is the one that we've come to remember, and while it's difficult to remember him and not contemplate how good it is for us, what he has accomplished, worship to God is entering in with him into the thoughts that he has for his son. And God loves to hear from us what we think of his son. It's not the time for us to teach. It's not the time for us to sermonize. It's not the time for us to do anything but offer to God our thoughts of his son. If we haven't been spending any time with his son, then we're not going to have much to offer God. But God just delights to hear about his son. And I can't help but wonder that why sometimes we don't hear that voice from heaven at some of our Lord's suppers. My son. This, this is the one he wants us to be occupied with. And, um, that's, I think, our theme. That's, I think, the object of our worship. That's the reason why we come. Remember me. We would, O God, present before thy face the fragrant name of thy beloved son. Thank you. Um, you know, you mentioned something about, uh, the preparation for the Lord's Supper or this worship service. Uh, this is a term that I think we have some different definitions about. What does it mean to prepare for, uh, this meeting. Uh, maybe Rex, could you give us a little idea of what we might be thinking of in that term, preparing for the Lord's Supper? Just, uh, mention verse, uh, Psalm forty five verse one whenever I think of preparing for the Lord's Supper, so to speak. It's a wonderful psalm, isn't it? My heart is indicted a good matter. I speak of the things which I have made, touching the king. My tongue is the pen of a ready writer. We can't not read verse two. Thou art fairer than the children of men. Grace is poured into thy lips, therefore God have blessed thee forever. I don't think that preparing for the Lord's Supper is to get your nor- note card out, three by five, that fits in your Bible that no one can see, and putting together a nice outline. But it has to be the preparation of the heart, dwelling on him, thinking on him. Whatever fills our heart is what we're going to speak about. There's no doubt about that. We find it in our personal life, we find it in our devotional life, we find it in our corporate life together with other believers whenever we gather to worship. I think the best way is to be prepared for meeting around the Lord and remembering him at the Lord's Supper is to be prepared at heart, dwelling on him, feasting on Christ, and when we come together, see what good things he's prepared for us as we meet in his name. My heart is meditating or inditing a good matter. It just bubbles up and comes right out the mouth as a ready writer with his pen. That's what our tongue will speak of if we've dwelt on him. Any other comments? I don't know whether David had the Lord's Supper in mind when he wrote Psalm twenty three, but the beginning of the Psalm, it's all occupied with the Lord. What he's done, David had spent time. The Lord had led him, the Lord had fed him, the Lord had guided him all week long. He'd even prepared a place f- for him. He had taken him through the valley of the shadow of death. And David stops, he says, you know, he, the Lord, anointed my head. But David had spent time with him. It's he, he, he, he in reference to the Lord throughout the Psalm. And David gets to the point where he says, my cup overflows. And then after his cup overflows, he goes into the Lord's house. I think we take David's example, spend our time with the shepherd, see what he's done for us, see how he's revealed himself to us. Our cup can't help but overflow. I think too we're missing a point, Brother Jim, when in the Old Testament economy, the nation of Israel was required to come before the Lord on those set feast times, and one of the commandments that were given to them that you shall not appear before the Lord empty-handed. It was a commandment that you should not appear before him empty-handed. And that is not something that we in the New Testament church should take lightly. We should not have come before the Lord empty-handed. We should come with our sacrifice of praise prepared in our hearts. And as our brothers mentioned, that preparation is a time dwelling with him. The, in the Song of Solomon, you find such beautiful truths of the lover saying, let me find that secret place, the secret place of the stairs. And there is none who will ever grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord until they spend daily time in that secret. Worship is something that occurs from our hearts day by day and moments, moment by moment, as we dwell upon the person of our Lord Jesus Christ. But when we gather together, and that's the prominence of the Lord's Supper, is when the saints gather together in that attitude that we have all prepared, and to be in his presence as a body of people. And I believe if that's an answer to your original question, Brother George, that's when the fullness of God is known Mm. in us, when we as a body offer up that sweet savor unto God for his blessed son. I just thought I might mention too, brother. Sure. When I think about worshiping the Lord, I think of the priests entering into the presence of God in the Old Testament, and there were three, uh, really stages to him entering in. First of all, there was the great brass altar that stood out in the court. Mm-hmm. Then the next step was the laver with the, uh, water, and then, of course, the third was when he came to the veil itself, and, uh, as the high priest was entered through the veil into the holiest of all. When we think about those three stages or obstacles as the priest went in, we find that our Lord Jesus Christ has dealt with all three, hasn't he? Mm. Um, he is the great sacrifice, uh, who fulfilled all of the, uh, types of the brazen altar that was out in front of the, of the tabernacle. He is our sanctification. He is our high priest, and in his unfinished work, uh, he cleanses us day by day. And of course, we know that when he died, the veil of the temple was rent from top to bottom. And so he has opened the way up to us truly in his finished work in which he has done, but there's a responsibility with all three of those things with us, and I think that has to do with our preparation. First of all, we need to be saved, don't we? Mm. We need to have come to the brazen altar and put our faith in Christ. The unsaved knows nothing of what it means to truly worship and adore the Lord Jesus Christ. They may say that they do, but they really don't. We need to have been truly born again, and then we need, I think, and this, uh, has not been mentioned, uh, and I think it it's good to remind ourselves, is that we need to come to the labor too, and to be cleansed. Um, let a man examine himself, so let him eat of that bread and drink of that cup, but we need to remember that that's not something you do at nine twenty nine in the morning. Uh, that's something that is done in heart's preparation, uh, on Saturday evening as we're quieting our hearts and preparing ourselves to worship the Lord. And then finally, when we come to the veil, we have a responsibility there too, don't we? We need to go in. We need to be prepared and ready, and the brethren have already expressed, uh, eloquently what all that involves, but the priest came with his hands full.