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Now we're in Romans chapter eight and tonight we're looking at verse twelve to seventeen. And here the apostle deals with the matter of sonship and its character. So verse twelve: therefore, brethren, we are debtors not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die. But if ye through, um, through the spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For you have not received the spirit of bondage against us, but you have received the spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba Father. The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God. And if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ. If so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
I trust the Lord to bless us that reading from his holy word. I wish I understood these statements as well as they can be understood, but they're, as I've said all along, I can only give what I've reached myself in reading and thinking about these things. I think that, uh, one of the aims I have when I'm reading scriptures is that I, I want to understand what they're saying, and that isn't always easy. I think old E. W. Rogers once said that, uh, if you wash a dog with a bone, he says, well, he eats the bits that are easy first and leaves the hard bits till later.
And, uh, he said that's what we should do. And once again, the apostle says therefore. So this is a very closely knit reasoning, isn't it? Uh, he says therefore, uh, and uh, it's a word of logic, isn't it? Uh, it has to do with thinking. It has to do with the mind, therefore. Another way you could put that is, is because of this, in view of this.
And uh, so Paul is not just addressing my emotions. Where's the dangerous thing to do that? The emotions should be stirred by the truth, and they should never be an aim in themselves. So, uh, he doesn't just address my will. He, uh, doesn't just address my feelings, but my understanding. So as he's writing to these saints at Rome, he wants them to think carefully about the things that have already been said. So he says, now therefore, brethren, uh, he says we are debtors, not to the flesh.
Well, that's what he's been talking about, isn't it? He's been talking about the fact that the Christian person is in the spirit, and the spirit's in him. And, uh, he's been contrasting the unbeliever with the believer in the previous verses. So now he says that, uh, we're not debtors to the flesh. In other words, is we're not in the power, we're not in the grip, he says, uh, of a creditor. We're under no obligation to the flesh. He says that we are debtors to God.
We are debtors to grace. We are debtors to mercy. We are debtors to love. But we are not debtors, he says, to the flesh. It's a strange way of putting it, isn't it? He's been dealing with the flesh. But he says, now listen, when you were unsaved, you were slaves, as it were, to the flesh. The whatever you were, your character, your state. He says that, uh, you're not in that condition now. So he's going to tell them about the fact of the indwelling Holy Spirit. I find these things difficult sometimes because one can stand up, as I do now, and uh, just tell you what I think is teaching, and then you go home and you face your wife, and she knows what your life is.
She knows all the difficulties and problems that come along, and you feel a bit hypocritical. You don't feel hypocritical because you've been saying, well, this is how I live, so this is how you should live. You know what I'm saying? Uh, one brother said to me once, he was a Scot. He says you should not, uh, minister on anything you're not in the good of. And I said, I better shut up then. Uh, because what we're saying here i- is that, uh, this is what the Bible says. We're not saying that, uh, we're in the good of it all the time. And I'm very conscious of that.
So when I, with other preachers, say, look, I'm speaking to myself, it isn't just an empty phrase, it's absolutely right, and I'm very conscious of that. So Paul is saying here, you- you're not a slave to your fallen nature. You don't have to serve it. And, uh, when you come to verse thirteen, he's going to call for action. Verse thirteen becomes an exultation. For if he lives after the flesh, he shall die. If he lives through the spirit, you do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live.
That's something you've got to do, but you do it with intelligence. So first of all, then, uh, he says to us, now this is the situation. He says we are not slaves to the flesh. It's still there. It's in us. He wouldn't need to say this if it wasn't. If you and I, because we're in Christ, were perfect in our experience, the epistles would never need to have been written. The epistles are mainly written because of our imperfection, because of the difficulties, because of the problems, uh, because of things that puzzle us.
I think nearly every one of us at one point in our lives would say, why does God allow this? Why do I feel like this? Why isn't it different? And you think of all the statements of the scripture that give promises, especially those that seem to say, well, if you pray about it and believe it, you'll get it. Uh, but then that's not exactly so, is it? So what's he saying here then? Well, he says that, uh, our Christian life isn't just, uh, intellectual, it's not simply theoretical, although in verse twelve he's laying down the doctrine. So he says we are debtors not to the flesh to live after the flesh, we're not to be dominated by it.
For if ye live, this is a warning. You see, as Paul writes to that church at Rome, he doesn't know them all. There might be those there are not saved. We think they are. Word of God sorts us out, doesn't it? It doesn't undermine confidence, but it does cause us to face reality. And so here's a warning, and uh, he says, for if ye live, as he assumes that they do. Well, what does he say?
If we live after the flesh, ye shall die. Do you have any problem with that? If you don't, I did for a long time. It's quite straight, isn't it? If he live after the flesh, he shall die. But we've got to notice our little word after. If he live according to the flesh. You see, he said in verse twelve that, uh, that though the flesh is there and we have to deal with it, we're not slaves of it. So now he says that, uh, if you do, if you do live in subjection to the flesh, if it, if it, as it were, a dictator to you, well, he says you shall die.
Does that bother you? Well, notice that one little word again, after. It is visualizing someone who lives under the domination of the flesh. No believer does that. See, he's not saying, is he, well now, if you sin, if you fall into obeying the flesh at one time or another, if you're battling with certain things of the flesh, maybe there are some things that you brought over with you when you were saved and you haven't been able to conquer them yet.
Well, we all know about that. Some believers, when they get saved, they've had some particular fleshly sin that's dominated them, and they give it up right away. Others have a struggle. But that's not living after the flesh. You see, living after the flesh is a way of living. It's total. In other words, it's to live as an unsaved person. And what he's saying is, if you profess to be saved, but you are actually under the domination of the flesh that's in your whole life, well, you'll soon find what's happened, you will die.
There's no eternal life there. So Paul isn't trying to undermine someone with a sensitive conscience. He's not doing that. But he does want to warn those who, and this happens in every generation, there are those who, for one reason or another, profess to be saved, and they are not. The flesh is there, let me emphasize that again and again. We're going to be battling with the flesh until the Lord comes, until we're going to be with him. That old man is there, they've got to be dealt with. So he goes on to say, doesn't he? Uh, he says, but on the other hand, on the, he says, but if ye, now will you notice that?
If ye, what's he doing now? He's telling us that we've got to do something. Not just passively, you see. Doctrine, uh, is, as it were, objective. That's the truth. Now he says, what I've been telling you now demands action on your part. He says that if ye, through the spirit. So you have the flesh on one side, now you have the spirit. That's what he's been talking about right the way through the chapter, isn't it really? So he says, if ye through the spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
That is the deeds that are done through the body. That's how we express ourselves in it to the various members of our body. But let's stop here for a moment, because you see, the apostle isn't talking about, uh, uh, what is called moralism. A lot of moral people, you know, even in our day, not so many as there used to be, but there are people who live by a moral code. And, uh, there are people of principle, they're upright. Uh, uh, they don't lie, they don't cheat, they don't swindle. And, uh, they're not spiritual.
Even though they're unsaved, they, uh, live a natural life, that is, without the spirit of God, but because of certain influences, maybe what they've been born into, how they've been trained, there are still people who are honest to a certain degree. There are people who, as I say, wouldn't cheat you or swindle you. They become fewer and fewer, but they are still there. That's not what Paul's talking about. And it's not legalism. It's very easy, you see, to have a religious code, isn't it?
One of the things that we tend to lean to. Two thousand years, you know, since the Lord went back to heaven, and here we are in assembly fellowship, I see, and we wouldn't dream of being legalists, would we? You'd be surprised how much legalism there is. Told you about the brother who took me to task, uh, on a Sunday morning because I read the scriptures before the bread was broken. He said, uh, that's wrong. I didn't argue about it.
I just said, um, I noticed you sung a hymn before the bread was broken. I said, does that mean that it's all right to sing the hi- the words of men, but not read the word of God? I said, you keep your stupid legalism to yourself. We don't want to hear. I don't like wrapping things up, but I think you got the point. Neither, neither is it what some very well-meaning teachers have said, that, uh, we should have full surrender.
Let go and let God. In other words, you don't do anything, but you become so passive, you just let everything go, and God does the rest. Some of that teaching came out of Keswick years ago. There are those who say we need the baptism of the Spirit, and, uh, you've got to wait for the Spirit to fall. Well, that's not the teaching of scripture. If I'd been there here on Sunday afternoon, I would have dealt with that, but I'm sure you're well taught on that. So what does he say? Well, he says, if ye through the spirit, put those two together, so ye the spirit.
So this isn't a man being moral. I'm saying people can be that. It's a man whose life is moving, acting through the Spirit of God. And, uh, he says, as it were, this is not easy to put over, but he says, as it were, that that I am responsible to act, but I do so in the realization, with the knowledge, the apprehension that I know that I can accomplish nothing without the Spirit of God's aid. Now, we've been taught in this epistle that we are indwelt by the Spirit of life.
That's in verse two. So he is the Spirit who gave us that life. He brought that life into being. He's the spirit of life. Uh, and uh, we read also in verse five, don't we, that we mind the things of the spirit. In other words, our outlook, our thinking is molded by the spirit of God through the word of God. And then again, uh, we are indwelt by the spirit of God. In other words, we now act with a sense of the glory of God.
We're in relation to God now, and we, we want all our actions, all our ways, uh, to be in harmony with his will for us, the Spirit of God. And then in verse nine, where we were the other night, he speaks about the Spirit of Christ. So what he's telling us in this verse, if I understand it correctly, he's telling us that, uh, he says, now what you do, you seek to do what you know is right, you seek to overcome what you know is wrong, but you do it with the realization you cannot do it in your own strength.
So there is a consciousness that you must move, as it were, you must act, but you're not doing it as the moral man does it, simply in his own strength. You're doing it as someone who realizes that the scripture is the word of God, and that you're indwelt by the spirit of God, and therefore you need to act with that realization. So he says, mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. And, uh, he does so. I think it's the, uh, New American Standard Bible that puts this, but if by the spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body.
What are the deeds of the body? Well, the deeds of the body are those deeds that are worked out through the body under the influence of the flesh. Our bodies are simply the instruments of our nature, isn't it? Now let's just say this tonight, because some might, uh, get wrong understanding about these things. You can, you can very often on the platform fail to, as it were, deal with certain difficulties that may arise in people's minds. Um, there is nothing wrong with the senses. Nothing wrong with seeing, nothing wrong with hearing, nothing wrong with tasting, nothing wrong with smelling, nothing wrong with feeling.
At the moment, I've lost my appetite. That one has to live, uh, by bread as well. My wife said to me today, you must eat something. I mean, I'll get it back. But normally, you know, there you are, you, you smell your dinner, that's your sense of smell. Uh, that stirs up, doesn't it, uh, uh, an anticipation, and then you eat it, that's your sense of taste, and then you're satisfied. Nothing wrong with that at all. Nothing wrong with a few saints going out for a meal together. It's a lovely thing to sit around a meal table and discuss things together and enjoy the meal.
Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. But gluttony is wrong. You see? There's nothing wrong with enjoying something, but greed is sinful. So what we're saying is that greed and gluttony is satisfied through certain members of the body. Well, by the spirit of God, you, you control that. Now you apply that to all the various, uh, parts, uh, uh, of our body, all our senses. And I believe it has been said, and I think it's right, that sin is the perversion and the distortion and debasement and pollution of what is right.
It's to take certain things that are right in themselves, but to abuse them, then they become sinful. Now you can apply that to all kinds of, uh, of all the various senses that you have. So you see what Paul is saying. Then again, there are things that would be wrong for me and not wrong for you. Now, my wife and I do not have a television. We never have. I've been tempted many times. She's been stronger than me, and I'm glad she has. But as you know, when I was a youngster, I could hardly read or write, and I used to spend a great deal of time in the cinema.
And uh, that was my enjoyment. And uh, if you see me walking down the high street and there's a television going in the window, you'll see my head go around it, especially if it's a Walt Disney. But uh, and uh, now I know that, you see. So for me, to have a television in the house would be dangerous. It may not be dangerous for you because you haven't, it isn't a temptation, you're out of control of things. So I've got no right to tell you what you can do and what you can't do. You've got to judge that. And there's been too much of this amongst the Lord's people.
If I can't do it, neither should you. And that's not the way you do things. The way you do things is to try, by the Lord's help, to get to know yourself, and to know what is dangerous for you, and to deal with it, and not to do that with others. Now he says, ye shall live. What does that mean? Well, it means, you see, that in my life there will be an enrichment, as I understand it.
That my life, as it grows and is lived without grieving or quenching the Spirit of God, will be a life that will increasingly become rich, spiritual. You'll be able to enjoy ordinary things without sin because you have learned a sensitivity to things. You know what's good for you, and you know what isn't. And so your life is a controlled life. It's a disciplined life. And, uh, I suppose we can go back to John chapter seventeen uh, where the Lord is in communion with his Father.
And he says, this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. And anything that would get in the way of that is harmful to the Christian. So that is spiritual life, isn't it? Let me just quote to here, uh, from Colossians chapter three. If ye then be risen with Christ, which you are, seek those things which are above, where Christ sits on the right hand of God.
When he says seek, he doesn't mean looking for them. What he means is that you desire them, that, that, uh, that you strive after them, that you set your heart upon them. And the more and more you become conscious of the corruption within, that should deepen your desire after those things which are spiritual. Those things, he said, ways which are above. Set your effect, your affection. That is the mind, the will, the affection.
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. In other words, he says, for ye are dead, that is, you died in Christ, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with, with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth. That's the taking bit here in Romans eight. Well, looking at that cut, we must move on, doesn't we? And so we go to verse 14, and uh, once again, we use that little word for.
For as many as are led. Been talking about mortifying the deeds of the flesh, haven't we? By the spirit. Now the, as many as, as many as are led, as many as is what is called an adjective, but it's an adjective that has the character of a noun. Now a noun is the name of something, isn't it? And so what he's telling us here is that there are those who are believers, so the word is actually these. So believers seen as a class.
So Paul could have said, now believers are led. To be led, and I- I'm just reading through this point by point so I don't miss away. The idea of being led implies cooperation, uh, a desire for the will of God. It isn't simply some force or power that impels me. Um, pardon me. A spirit-led life motivizes the deeds of the body. Uh, it isn't driven by the flesh, by our fallen corrupt nature.
So, he says we're not now like a slave in bondage. Uh, we, we are led. But the idea is a leading, uh, that you, as it were, submit to. So, we don't drift any longer. Our life is purposeful. When he says led, he's not just talking about service. I was led to do this, I was led to do that. There was a lady in America many years ago who woke up one morning and she said, whatever the Lord tells me to do, whatever I'm led to, I'm going to do.
And she finished up getting off a bus doing about fifty miles an hour, and that's the last thing she did down here. But you see, this is just fear emotion, isn't it? But, uh, I think that what Paul is talking about here is that, uh, my life now is a controlled life. It's a directed life. It's an influenced life. In other words, it's directed, it's influenced, controlled by the Spirit of God living in us, the Spirit of Christ. So this being led isn't some sudden emotion.
Isn't that we suddenly feel we have to do something. That's another matter. But he says it's a... it it it, what this does, it, uh, how can I put it? It influences my outlook. It influences my thinking. My outlook tonight and my thinking tonight is quite different to what it was about forty years ago. And there's been a gradual change. There's been a gradual change of emphasis, a change of appreciation. I think some people are very, very spiritually minded and have their say. Some others, it takes a long time.
But, uh, the Lord is very gracious, isn't he? So my desires are changed, my character is changed, my whole life is being molded without us really realizing it, I suppose. And, uh, that is what is being... means to be led. Perhaps the word led isn't a good word to use these days, it's been so perverted. So it's influence. So your life and my life is an influence life. That's why we're here tonight. That's why we do what we do. I remember some years ago where I used to work, Friday night we were all packing up to go, and uh, one of the chaps there said to me, what you're doing for the weekend, Tom?
So I told him. He said, why don't you take your wife to the theatre? Why don't you go home tonight and really surprise her and say we're not going to any prayer meetings. I ain't like that. You're going up the West End, and you're going to give her a good time. He said, wouldn't that be wonderful? I said, uh, if you've got a chicken, you don't feed it on dog food, you feed it on chicken food. I said a cat normally likes milk, not a bone, but a dog usually likes a bone. I said that's all to do with their nature, you see.
And I said at one time, my nature was like yours. To get to the West End or somewhere like that would have been terrific. I said, but my wife and I have got a different nature now, and I said, the things that will be horrific for you, to sit through a prayer meeting for an hour. I said, boy. I said, but uh, to my wife and I now, that's a wonderful thing to do. On Saturday, I said, we'll be with some Christians, we'll be listening to the Bible expounded all together about three hours, and I said, wonderful. I said, mind you, we do get sometimes in a right pause, but never mind. I said that's, that's a different matter.
But, um, that's it, isn't it? That's what is meant by being led by the spirit to change. But it's always the flesh knocking on the door and trying to get in the way. But we know how to deal with that, don't we? So this is to bring me more and more into conformity with the life of Christ. That's it. Now, in uh, Luke chapter eight verse thirty five, you remember the demoniac. Then they went out to see what was done and came to Jesus and found the man out of whom the devils, the demons were departed, sitting at the feet of Jesus.
There was peace where there had been turmoil. There was subjection and a teachable spirit. Amazing. At the feet of Jesus, clothed, and if we want to put some structure on that, then, well, this man went about naked, but now he's clothed. There is an order about things in his lifestyle. And, uh, he was clothed and in his right mind. Self-control, self-command. That man was absolutely changeful. And that, I think, is a picture, uh, that Paul is getting at here.
And so what he's saying is that the people who are like that, for as many as are influenced or led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Now, I think I mentioned the other night that sonship is not the same as being a child. There are many children of God who are not sons. That is, the Old Testament saints were not sons, they were children of God. But every son of God is also a child of God. So you'll find that changed in a moment down through the verses.
But now let's think for a moment about the, about this sonship. As I said before, the Lord Jesus is never called the child of God. He's called the son of God. Called the son of man. Because sonship has to do with character, has to do with status, has to do with nature. Uh, in Ephesians chapter one verse five, verse four deals with election, verse five, having predestinated us unto the adoption of children. Now, I think all expositors agree that that is literally the adoption of sons.
Going a little further, the word adoption is not the same idea that we thought think of in adoption. The idea is to give someone the place of a son. You and I were not adopted into God's family. We were born into God's family. So we are legitimate children of God. But in this dispensation, we have been given the status of sons. And, uh, that means that ahead of us there is a tremendous, uh, inheritance. Uh, in Galatians, uh, where are we, chapter four and verse, well, written verse four.
But when the fullness of the time has come, God sent forth his son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption or the place of son. And then we have the character of this sonship, uh, John chapter twenty verse seventeen: Jesus said unto her, touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father, but go to my brethren and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.
What a tremendous statement. He doesn't say our Father and our God because there is always a distinction between him and them. But what he's telling them is the truth that was to be revealed in the epistles, that they now have been brought into such relationship to him, that he brings them into this tremendous relationship that will really bring- come to fruition when we're in his presence. It is sonship. So in verse fifteen he enlarges on this. He says, for ye have not received the spirit or a spirit of bondage.
You see, once again, he's on about this business of being, uh, dominated, isn't it? Bondage to sin, bondage to the flesh. Uh, a servitude, as it were, like slaves. He said, you haven't done that. There are some brethren who will bring us into it. It, it is a part of the flesh, you know, to want to make rules and to want to make regulations, to try to keep one's hand on the helm, uh, rather than let, let me put it this way, let other believers develop and grow, and so that we have what we might say, freshness in the meeting.
Not, not getting up quoting Coates and Darby and Kelly and all the rest of it, but really speaking from their hearts in the simplicity of truth. You know, when someone gets does that, everyone realizes there's a sense of freshness about it. So not the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you have received the spirit of adoption, whereby we cry Abba Father. The spirit of adoption, or better, the spirit of sonship.
So we're not only sons, but there is the development by the indwelling Holy Spirit, there is the development of consciousness of that relationship. That we're in the family of God, and we've been brought in, uh, as mature sons, and we gradually, by the Spirit of God, get a, uh, how can I put it, a spiritual sensitivity. The Holy Spirit makes the believer aware of this tremendous relationship. These are not easy things to deal with, I don't find it anyway. But, uh, he leads us into a sense of these things.
Sometimes the rush and bustle of life can drown them. And then he comes out with these two statements, whereby we cry. We cry because it comes from an inner sense of things, abba father. Now, a great deal has been said about these two words, hasn't it? And, uh, it has been said that abba is an Aramaic word, and father is a Greek word. Abba is a cry of emotion, a cry of feeling. It's inherent in the relationship. Just recently, back at the bungalow, we heard a little girl, a little girl's voice, mummy, mummy, I want mummy.
That is the cry of relationship, isn't it? Abba. And then the word father is the cry of insight. It's the, uh, it's the word that tells of understanding. So then Abba has with it a sense of conviction. It's an unreasoned trust. A child can't tell you why it clings to mummy and daddy. It's inherent in the relationship. Then, with the word father, it's a word of action, a word of life, a word of purpose.
So there we are. Now, in our last few minutes, the next two verses. I've never ever managed to get through sections like this before. There's something wrong somewhere, but here we are. It says the, the Spirit itself. Now the apostle is obviously speaking of the Holy Spirit. And uh, our translators in sixteen eleven had a bit of a problem because, uh, the word spirit is a neuter word. So grammatically they must put itself. But it is obviously referring to the Holy Spirit himself, who is a person.
But the word spirit is a neuter word. So they either had to translate literally or they had to interpret, and they chose to translate literally. So our authorized version correctly says the spirit itself, but though that is, uh, grammatically correct, it is doctrinally incorrect because he's speaking of a person. So he says the Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children of God, and that word children is children.
It's a relationship by birth. Now, there is a doctrine among cer- certain believers of the covenant relationship believers, Calvinists and so forth, uh, and, uh, they will talk about the witness of the Spirit. So there you are, you're saved, but you haven't got the witness. So you have to wait sometime in your life when you will have an experience, an inner experience, and you say, I've received the witness. There is no such teaching in the Word of God. Not at all.
Now, the the word witness here really has the idea of a joint witness. And so the Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit. It's a joint witness. Now, I've thought about this. I suppose one can say simply that, uh, there is a s- a sense of a sympathy between the two, an affinity. But I thought about it like this. Some years ago, when I worked in London, Budgate Circus, I was near to the law courts, and some lunchtimes I would go up to the court and listen to certain trials that were going on, one or two murder cases.
And the way they conducted it with the lawyers, I thought they could teach some of their brethren how to run a Bible reading. Uh, but, but first of all, you would get a witness, and the witness would get up in the box and be questioned and so forth by the prosecution, by the defense, and that witness would get down and go out of the court, and another witness would come in, and uh, the idea of the prosecution, I suppose, would be to try to break that down. What we've got here is that you get a witness gets up in the witness box and he witnesses a certain thing, and you get up in the witness box, and you witness exactly the same.
So there is an accord between the two. And so what we've got here, let let's put it like this, that the Holy Spirit, for instance, will witness to the perfection of Christ. You and I receive that. So our minds and hearts are in affinity with the Spirit of God. Um, everything that we have in our Bible is really inspired by the Holy Spirit, and you and I have a spirit, if you like, that is willing to receive it. We don't come to the Word of God, do we, with critical outlook.
Everything else in life must be faced with a critical outlook. You examine things. But the Word of God is absolute. The Word of God says it, it's right. And you and I, by the Holy Spirit's influence, we are in harmony with that. So what Paul is saying here, I believe, is this, that, uh, the Holy Spirit, whatever he does, uh, whatever, how can I put it, whatever influence he puts forward, you and I are in harmony with that. So the witness isn't a feeling inside.
It isn't something that happens to a subsequent conversion. It is that the moment that you and I are saved, we are indwelt by the Spirit of God, and there is a willingness to learn, to be taught, so that there is a harmony between indwelling spirits and our own minds and hearts. So there we are. And then this finally, and if children and heirs. Heirs of God. What an amazing thing to say. Heirs of God. If that hadn't been written in the scriptures, we would never have dared use, uh, such a statement.
But you see, here there is a birth. It is a birth by the Spirit of God. You and I have that, uh, birthright, if you like. If children, then heirs. Heirs of God, joint heirs with Christ. And then I'm not going to say any more about that because time is gone, but I will just say something about this final statement because I think it may be helpful to some. If so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Now, there is a teaching that, uh, sometimes went around, not so much these days, called selective rapture, partial rapture.
The idea was that when the Lord comes, only those believers who have reached a certain stage of spirituality would be taken. The others would be left. And I once was a friend of a brother who thought that way, and I said, well, if anybody gets left behind, I know it'll be me. Uh, I'm only too aware of shortcomings. He says, but listen, if we don't suffer with him, he says that we won't be glorified with him. Paul isn't saying that. This isn't a warning. What he's giving us here is an encouragement. You see, you can suffer for Christ.
There you are, you're a bank manager, you're getting a good income, and you chuck the whole lot over and you go be a missionary in some corner of the empire, and you live in a mud hut. That's suffering for you. You didn't have to do that. You chose to do it because you believe that's what he wanted you to do. Now, some believers do that, some don't. Uh, I could never live anywhere where there are creepy crawlies or snakes. But, uh, the very fact that you are a believer, you will, as he says here, suffer with him, not for him.
Because the moment we're saved, we are brought, uh, through our salvation into such a relationship with him, uh, that it is part of the Christian nature to suffer in a world like this, because we're believers. You've only got to stick your head above the parapet and you'll get hurt. Uh, where I used to work, he used to say to me, Tom, you're not a bad bloke. You're just not that bad, really. Uh, but uh, he used to say, we hate your dogmatism. And uh, I tell a little story, in fact, I'll just say it quickly. I said that, um, when I was at school, you know, I couldn't read and write and so forth.
So I said one day, the teacher was teaching mathematics, all the kids were going out of the class, all going home. Told me, Ledger, come here. So Ledger came here. And, uh, she got a sheet of paper there, and on that sheet of paper there were printed sums. And under the sum there was a gap where you had to put the answer. And she said to me, you got that one right, and you got that one right, but you got that one wrong. So she went down the list. She said, the thing that puzzled me is that the boy you were sitting next to, he got that one right as well, and so yours was exactly the same as his.
That's why I learned to draw, see, I had to copy. And uh, so when he was right, I was right, and when he was wrong, I was wrong. And I said to these fellows, when the Bible's right, I'm wrong. When the Bible's wrong, I'm wrong, and the Bible's never wrong. I said, when I tell you something out of scripture, it is dogmatic because it's from God. But I said, when it's my opinion, there's no dogmatism at all. And you and I have that, uh, harmony with the things of God. Well, may the Lord give us these, uh, scattered thoughts. I'm sorry I've gone over for it tonight. I just remembered that I'm hooked up.