Gooding, David: 9 - Overview of Section 3

Yes, I don't think it is a type of the church, as some people have said, but I do think it's an example of the providence of God, uh, on which we rely as servants of the Lord and in any walk of life, that, uh, God, uh, is sovereign in his providences. We can't blame God for a lot of evil things that people do, but behind it is the providence of God. If we didn't believe it, sir, we wouldn't venture on the Lord's work in difficult countries. Now, this present session, gentlemen, is listed in the program as a lecture with time for questions and discussion. As for the lecture part, we must move on, it seems to me, to begin to consider section three in the first half of the book of Joshua. But when it comes to question times, just let me remind you that you owe me a lot of comments, contributions, and criticisms, of course, on part, uh, two of the book of Joshua, section two, that is to say. The story of the destruction of Jericho and of Ai. With great daring and immense courage, of course, I, I, um, dared to put out my views upon it to you last night, and I understood by your silence that you agreed, that, uh, you were going to give me your comments and criticisms and alternative expositions of that important passage, and I shall be allowing time in the discussion this morning to, uh, hear what you have to say on that particular part of the book. But for the moment, let's move on into the third section of this first half of Joshua. It begins in chapter nine and verse one. And we have now noticed several times the careful literary form of the book. Chapter nine verse one begins with a sentence very similar to the sentence with which chapter five verse one began. Chapter five announced, it came to pass when all the kings of the Amorites, which were beyond Jordan westward, and all the kings of the Canaanites, which were by the sea, heard how the Lord had dried up the waters of Jordan from before the children of Israel until we were passed over, that their s- uh, heart melted, neither was their spirit in them anymore, because of the children of Israel. Breach had been made in the natural defense. Israel were across Jordan, and it was the power of their God that had done it. Now chapter nine similarly begins. And it came to pass when all the kings which were beyond Jordan, in the hill country and in the lowland, and on all the shore of the great sea in front of Lebanon, the Hittite, the Amorite, the Canaanite, and Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite heard thereof. And this time what they had heard was that Jericho and Ai had both been completely destroyed and razed to the ground, burned with fire. And hearing that, these kings, both north and south, gathered themselves together to fight with Joshua and with Israel with one accord. Not coming now individually. They were talking now in terms of confederacies. And in the subsequent chapters, we shall read of the two confederacies. In chapter ten, it says it came to pass when Ad- Ad- Adonizedek, king of Jerusalem, heard how Joshua had taken Ai and had utterly destroyed it, as he had done to Jericho and her king, so he had done to Ai and her king, and how the inhabitants of Gibeon had made peace with Israel, that the aforesaid king of Jerusalem, being greatly feared, verse three, he sent to Hoham king of Hebron, and unto Piram king of Jamuth, and unto Japhir king of Lachish, and unto Debir king of Eglon, come up unto me and help me. The confederacy of the southern kings, those cities are in the south. Later, of course, in chapter, uh, eleven, it came to pass when Jabin, king of Hazor, heard thereof, that he sent to Jocheb, king of Madon, and to the king of Shimron, and to the king of Achshaph, uh, Achshaph, and to the kings that were on the north in the hill country and in the Araba south of Jenerot, and in the lowland and in the heights of Dor on the west, to the Canaanite on the east and on the west, and the Amorite and the Hittite and the Perizzites and the Jebusites in the hill country, and the Hivite under Hermon in the land of Mizpah. Verse five: all these kings met together, and they came and pitched together at the waters of Meron to fight with Israel. So in this, the third section, we are to get the opposition first from the southern confederacy of kings, and then from the northern confederacy of kings, actively coming to oppose Israel. And the story of the triumph of Joshua is how he put down both those confederacies of kings and went round, in addition to the pitched battles, went round the country systematically taking the cities and destroying their kings. The objective is achieved, and chapter twelve that finishes the first half of the book just lists all the kings that were destroyed. The objective, therefore, on this occasion could be described as putting down all rule and authority, dealing with the principalities and the powers. I choose my terms, of course. Because put that way, it will hold resonance, will it not? With what is said of our Lord, he must reign till he has put down all rule and authority. But then, much earlier still, we read in Colossians how he stripped the principalities and powers, did he not? He made a show of them openly, sir. He did that. And he took the handwriting, as the King James picturesquely says. That means our bill of acknowledgement. It was an ancient IOU, where somebody would write out that he owed somebody monies and signed it with his own hand, in Greek, hierographon. And there is a great bill against us in the court of God, listing our faults and sins. It's signed with our own hands because our consciences have registered. And if they, and those who stand before the great white throne, when the books are opened and the charges are read, if they dare dispute them, God will play back their conscience to them. Which registered. Anyway, the point, immediate point is that when we think of our Lord dealing with the principalities and powers, we think not merely of the result of his future reign, put down all rule and authority. We think of what he did in that direction, by the conquest of Calvary. Surely we do. So let's just sum up the three great objectives, as we find them in these three sections of the first half of Joshua. The first objective was to get Israel across Jordan into their inheritance. The difficulty was Jordan in flood, threatening death, stampede and death, if Joshua dared try to take his great forces across Jordan in that condition. And the miracle that God did to divide the waters of Jordan through the presence of the ark and of God, the Lord of the whole earth, upon the ark, going down into Jordan and coming up the other side. In Christian terms, the conquest of death itself, by dying, put out of action him that had the power of death. Hebrews chapter two. In the second section, the great objective was the establishment of the law, and that was done at a ceremony on the mountains of Ibal and Gerizim. It's curses and its blessings pronounced. And what that means for us doctrinally, we thought of from Romans chapter three. justification is the doctrine that establishes the law. And second, because it upholds the law's honor and penalty. It gives us justification righteously because Christ has borne the penalty of the law, satisfying the law and its giver, God, so that God may be just and the justifier of him that believes in Jesus. But secondly, the establishment of the law, we noticed in Romans chapter eight, that what the law couldn't do in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin as a sacrifice for sin, condemned sin in the flesh, did not excuse it. But on the other hand, that the righteous demand, requirement of the law shall be fulfilled in us, though we're not under law, but its righteous demand shall be fulfilled in us who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the spirit. Thus putting the balance to this question of our relationship with the law. Now we come to this third section, and I might just add the obstacle in the way, of course, as we have been noticing, obstacle in the way of that second advance was the walls of Jericho, and God did a mighty miracle there too, in that the walls of Jericho at a certain point fell down. Now we come to the third one. The great objective is the putting down of all rule and authority. That will thus make it safe for Israel to begin to settle down in Canaan. So long as those, any of those kings were still alive, it could be perilous for Israel to attempt to settle down in the land as individual tribes and as individual families. All the rule and authority had to be put down, therefore. That the great objective. And of course, the difficulties, the obstacles in the way, were first the southern confederacy of kings, and then secondly the northern confederacy of kings. It took Joshua a long time to put them down, the text tells you so, but he did that. And in the course of doing it, there came also a mighty miracle. Not only s- great hailstones from heaven that slew many of the forces of the Southern Confederacy, but also in answer to Joshua's prayer, the sun and the moon stood still. Apparently to give Joshua the time to mop up those enemy forces before they could get back into their fortified cities. This much, therefore, seems to me to lie on the surface and to be indisputable. But now you will notice another feature, it's a literary feature, of this third, uh, section. Look back again, if you will, at the second section. It begins in chapter five with a mention of the kings, as we noticed a moment ago. But then, before the assault on Jericho takes place, which it does in chapter six. and of course before the assault on Ai takes place, which is chapter seven and eight, there are these preliminary preparations or introductions or whatever you call them to the assault on Jericho, given us in chapter five. And yesterday we saw how important they were. If Israel were going to act as the executives of God's judgment on these Canaanite cities, then they needed to be properly prepared, spiritually and morally, for this solemn duty. Now, similarly with this third section, the battle against the Southern Confederacy is recorded in chapter ten, Uh, the many battles against them. The battles against the Northern Confederacy in chapter eleven. But once more we notice that before those two battles, or campaigns, as you might say, there is an introductory chapter. It concerns the story of the Gibeonites. And any preacher who preached on the Gibeonites before an audience like this might tremble, as the Gibeonites did themselves. Because the matter is somewhat disputed, and the popular interpretation runs one way and could well be right. My interpretation runs a somewhat different way. So, greatly daring, let me put on some of the evidence. Can you, uh, sharpen it up? Personal copy of those notes in front of us. You have a personal copy? Marvelous. We've yet to enter into our inheritance. Here on this seat, I have laid out for you a contrast between sections two and three. In section two, the cities of Jericho and Ai are utterly destroyed under God's judgment. In section three, the city of Gibeon and its satellite towns, Shiphira, Beeroth, and Kiriath-Jearim are saved by God's own direct miraculous intervention. And I think all of us will agree on that at least. We'll come to the more difficult bits later on. But this, I think, gentlemen, is beyond dispute. For now you will notice that, you see, um, the kings gathering together, the southern kings, to fight Israel, then heard that Gibeon had defected, we might say converted to Israel, and had made a covenant of peace with them, Gibeon and her satellite towns. And when they heard that, you'll see, says chapter ten, verses one to three, The southern kings were greatly alarmed because Gibeon was a very big city by their standards and was a metropolis. It had various satellite towns around it. And for a very big city and a metropolis like Gibeon, to go over to the Israelite side was a very serious matter for the southern kings, where it would give Israel a very big foothold and added strength against the southern confederacy. The result of which was that the southern kings made a confederacy and came against, not Israel, but Gibeon. For converting to Israel, if I might use a modern term. And God's response to it? Well, what happened, says chapter ten, was that the Gibeonites found themselves besieged by the southern kings. They managed to get a message through to Joshua, who at this time was down at Gibeon, some miles away, down in the valley, urging Joshua to come and help them. And God himself intervened and told Joshua, yes, Joshua, you go, and I will give them into your hand. So Joshua staged an overnight march, twenty or thirty miles up very difficult terrain, up to the, up the hills, and surprised the besiegers at dawn the next day, and their forces were scattered. It was a surprise attack. The attackers then fled a little bit up the pass from Gibeon at the top and then down the pass the other side and ran as fast as their hairy legs would take them down the pass, trying to reach the safety of their various cities in the Shephelah, in the more in the plains. Before Joshua even could get started pursuing them, God himself threw down great stones from heaven upon those armies now trying to escape. The text adds that more soldiers of the enemy were slain by the hailstones and were slain by Joshua's swords. It's God who destroyed them. What for? To save Gibeon. That's why. And when Joshua saw that, uh, he needed a great deal of daylight to mop up the troops that were trying to flee before they could get into their defense cities, their fortress cities, he stood and prayed, did he not? Sun, stand thou still, and moon, stand still. Give me more daylight. And the Lord hearkened to the voice of that man Joshua, and the great miracle happened. What for? To save Gibeon, that's what for. I've made my case that it was the Lord who saved Gibeon. Any object, uh, objections? All agreed? Look at that, hundred percent agreement. Hello. Actually, uh, I wanted to agree with you on that because there was a point later on I saw from many times right before we section of the book of Joshua, where it says that the Lord made it so every city that was left continued to fight with Joshua so he could utterly destroy them, but that you see that the Lord allowed Gibeon to come into the Commonwealth of Israel. He didn't harden their heart, as it says further on in Joshua with the other cities. Mm-hmm. So I think that is another example of the fact the Lord wanted to allow them to come and be a part of it. Thank you very much, you see. I can see you're on my side, perilously so. You see, because if you agree with me that it was God who saved the Gibeonites, now I have a further question to ask you. Did he really want to save them? Or was it so that he had intended that they should not be saved? But Israel stupidly went and made a covenant with them. And because they made a covenant with them in the name of God, then God was obliged to save them and said to himself, look what my stupid people have gone and done now. I didn't want to save them. And if only they had consulted me, I would have told them not to save them. But they didn't consult me, made a covenant, and now I shall have to save them, though I didn't want to. That's grace, you think? Would you say that something like that is an explanation of the situation? That God originally had not intended to save them and didn't want them saved, but eventually saved them? Could not be. P- pardon? Hello? Could not be. Who said that? You said that, sir? You in the blue shirt, yes? And another man over here? The Gibeons heard the message of salvation from Egypt. They said, they said so. We have heard. In, in somewhere in Deuteronomy, Moses had a provision, I don't know where it is, where if you make siege of a city and they come out peaceably to make peace with them, but if they don't, then destroy them. Yes. Where that has to be. Well, it's Deuteronomy chapter twenty actually, yes. Mm-hmm. In that sense, is there a provision that God has made? W- mm-hmm. Well, yes, we'll look at it, therefore, in a moment, sir. Thank you for the help. That is a very great help to make that observation. But on the doctrinal and theological point, I'm not trying to be funny, gentlemen. If God saved the Gibeons, Gibeonites, I want to say that God intended to save them. Amen. Dr. Goody, so if Joshua would have asked the Lord, would the Lord have said, spare them, even though they're lying to you? Yes. I mean, you know, Joshua didn't ask the Lord. He didn't ask the Lord. If he would have asked the Lord, what would you- What would the Lord have said? Yes. I mean, it's obvious that God wants everyone saved. Yes. It's God's will that all men be saved and come to knowledge of the truth, but specifically, you know, they came back and to see Joshua, and he didn't know the Lord. What do you think his response would have been? That's right. That's a very good question, and we shall ask it, if I may just delay the answer a moment, we shall ask it when we come to consider this chapter twenty of Deuteronomy and so on. The doctrinal point I'm making is this: will anybody find themselves in heaven at last saved, only to discover that God didn't want them saved, that some preacher went and pointed a Bible text to them or something, and they believed it, and God said, well, I shall have to save them now, but I didn't want to. Nobody? No, I don't think anybody would agree with that, no. You, sir? Sorry, I just wanted to say that even John the Baptist, when he saw the Pharisees coming, he says, uh, he he some expletive, and he said, uh, who warned you of the wrath to come? And they came to repent. Who warned you of the wrath to come? Yeah. Well, good. Now the question arises, does it not, because of, firstly, what is said in the actual text, and we must take the text seriously. This is chapter nine, verse three: when the inhabitants of Gibeon heard what Joshua had done unto Jericho and to Ai, they also did work craftily, and went and made as if they had been ambassadors, and took old sacks upon their asses and wineskins, pretending that they came from a distance, whereas in fact, they lived just round the corner, so to speak, and were cities near at hand. And verse fourteen tells us that the men to whom they came took of their provision and asked not counsel at the mouth of the Lord. And Joshua made peace with them and made a covenant with them to let them live. And that verse seems to suggest that it was altogether a fault in the men and in Joshua. They should have asked counsel of the Lord. Whereas they didn't ask counsel of the Lord and therefore were deceived by this charade that the Gibeonites put on, persuaded that they came from a distance, and therefore made peace with them. And the implication would seem to be that had they asked counsel of the Lord, the Lord would have told them they come just around the corner, they're telling you lies. And then the expositors hold that in that case, Joshua would have destroyed them anyway and not made peace with them. And so the preachers preach from this text very often, and they say, now do be careful. You have had successes in your ministry like Joshua had at Jericho and eventually at Ai, and you feel so self-confident you can proceed now without overmuch prayer and consulting the Lord. And a situation arises and it seems obvious to you what the solution is, and you go ahead without praying about it, only to find not only you have made a wrong decision, but you have bound yourself in a circumstance that you can't get out of, and will trouble you for years on end to come. All because you didn't ask counsel of the Lord. And that in itself seems a powerful lesson, doesn't it? I say nothing to undermine the necessity that we constantly seek counsel of the Lord. That said, of course, the question that has been asked and remains to be answered, if they had asked counsel of the Lord, what would the Lord have told them to do? Now, the passage that controls this situation is Deuteronomy and chapter twenty. mhm It is a long chapter. We have time only to skim through it. But it consists of a number of rules and regulations governing the conduct of war. Rules and regulations that Israel must observe. Verse two: It shall be when you draw near in battle that the priest shall approach and speak unto the people and say unto them, Hear, O Israel, you draw nigh this day unto battle against your enemies. Let not your heart faint, fear not, nor tremble, neither be affrighted at them. For the Lord your God is he that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you. To bolster their courage and determination in the face of fire. And the officers shall speak to the people, saying, now here comes a second regulation. What man is there that hath built a new house and hath not dedicated it? Let him go and return to his house, lest he die in the battle and another man dedicate it. What man is there that hath planted a vineyard and doth not use the fruit thereof? Let him go and return unto his house, lest he die in the battle and another man use the fruit thereof. And what man is there that hath betrothed a wife and hath not taken her? Let him go and return unto his house, lest he die in the battle, and another man take her. And you will notice at once, this is a merciful provision of God. Not necessarily observed by modern nations in the face of war with the new recruits. It was observed of God. There are joys in life that are pinnacles. And for a man to lose his life in battle before he has enjoyed them would move the God of heaven to compassion. So the man was not forbidden to take part in war, but he was not disgraced if he went home to enjoy one or other of these pinnacles of life's enjoyment before he risked his life in battle. God's merciful softening of the dangers and perils of war. Secondly, verse eight, uh and the officers shall speak further unto the people, and they shall say, what man is there that is fearful and faint-hearted? Let him go and return to his house, lest his brother's heart melt as his heart. That's exceedingly merciful. In the First World War, if a man did that, the British Army shot him. Men that were shell shocked and couldn't take anymore and ran away, they hauled them before courts martial and shot them. Not so God. Even if those far off early times, if a man was afraid, it was a danger that his for fear should infect the others, he was allowed to go home. We do serve a merciful God, you know. Even the God of the Old Testament, as they call him, is a merciful God. Then the officers go through and make, uh, point captains, you'll see. Now come instructions as to how the army is to treat the cities against which they go and which they are about to attack. Verse ten: When thou drawest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace to it. Your first move. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace and open unto thee, then it shall be that all the people that is found therein shall become tributary unto thee and shall serve thee. Conditions laid down, of course, but an offer of peace on condition that the inhabitants are prepared to come and be tributary, in some sense, servants to the Israelites. On the other hand, if they will make no peace with thee but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it. And when the Lord thy God delivereth it into thine hand, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword. But the women and the little children and the cattle and all that is there in the city, even all the spoil thereof, thou shalt take for a prey unto thyself. Now pray notice. City of Jericho was in its way exceptional. There the whole city had to be destroyed, root and branch, everything abreed, and the Israelites were to take no spoil. Ai was destroyed root and branch, and the people, but Israel were allowed to take some spoil. So there were different rules of severity in how to treat cities that refused to make peace. But now verse fifteen, and we come to the verses relevant to our present passage. Thou shalt, thus shalt thou do unto cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations. That is to say, you can offer them peace on these conditions if they are very far off from you. But the cities of these peoples that the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breathes, but thou shalt utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Perizzite and all the rest of them, you'll see. Why should they do that? Pray, notice the, the reason why they were to be destroyed, these cities near at hand. That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods, so should you sin against the Lord your God. So the cities are far off. They could spare on certain conditions that the people were prepared to come out and be servants to them, be tributary to them. The cities that were near at hand of these local nations were to be exterminated because the danger was that if they spared them, they would corrupt Israel and lead Israel to practice their abominable pagan practices. They are the rules. And when the Gibeonites eventually were brought before Joshua, and he asked them why they had done what they had done, let's read what they said to Joshua. Well, this is Joshua, chapter nine verse twenty two. And Joshua called for them, the Gibeonites. For now, Joshua and the elders had made a covenant with them to let them live, and the covenant couldn't be revoked. So Joshua called for them, he spake to them saying, why have you beguiled us, deceived us, saying we are very far from you, when you dwell among us? Now therefore you are cursed, and there shall never fail to be of you bondmen, both hewers of wood and drawers of water for the house of my God. They answered Joshua and said, because it was certainly told thy servants how that the Lord thy God commanded his servant Moses to give you all the land and to s- to destroy all the inhabitants of the land from before you. Therefore we were afraid for our lives because of you, and have done this thing. They'd heard what Moses had commanded the Israelites. And my practical turn of mind suggests I should ask you, if you had been a Gibeonite, and you'd heard what Moses had said, and you knew that if you only you had been a city afar off, you could have been spared, but if you were a city near at hand, you couldn't be, and you'd heard what Moses said, what, gentlemen, in all honesty, would you have done? I would be like the Gibeonite. Would you say? But, you know, I'm reminded by the Syrophoenician lady, where she says, can you give me the promises for Yes, yes, yes, yes, sir. Just elaborate on that, if you would, that Syrophoenician woman. Well, the Lord told her that the sustenance was only for his people, those who belong to Israel. She was of Greek descent, and then she said, but Lord, even the dogs, they eat of the crumbs that fall from the master's table. And then the Lord commended her for her faith and gave her her desire. That's right. Even though he'd said, I was not sent but to the lost sheep of the tribe of Israel. That was his sending, his commission. He responded to her Gentile faith. The notion that if we had been Gibeonites and had heard what Moses said, we'd have said, well, that's too bad for us. We're a city near at hand, so we just stay here and let our throats be slit. Seems to me to be a little unnatural or impractical. But they had heard what Moses said, and the conditions for being spared, if they were a city, afar off, that is, was that they should come out and be servants. Be prepared to be servants. Listen to the Gibeonites when they first appear. Verse seven, oh, verse six, you'll see. They're telling a lie, of course they are. They say, they went to Joshua to the camp at Gilgal and said to him and to the men of Israel, we come from a far country, now therefore make a covenant with us. Which was a lie, of course, we know that. And the men of Israel said unto the Hivites, peradventure you dwell among us, and how shall we make a covenant with you? And they said unto Joshua... Wise boys, weren't they? We are your servants. That was the condition upon which they could be spared. We are your servants. Were they genuine? Were they prepared to be servants? When eventually, as we've just read, they came to Joshua, he said, you will become hewers of wood and drawers of water unto all the congregation, as the princes have spoken unto them. They would be servants. And what is more, when Joshua said that, they replied to him, verse twenty five, "And now behold, we are in thine hand, as it seemeth good and right unto thee to do unto us, do." I'm not disputing that they are prepared to be servants. And so he did unto them, and delivered them out of the hand of the children of Israel, that they slew them not. And Joshua made them that day hooves of wood and drawers of water for the congregation and for the altar of the Lord. And thus they have remained in that service until this day, says the compiler of the book of Joshua. I submit, gentlemen, in my case, that they were genuine. They had heard the conditions of peace was that they would be prepared to come out and be servants. They said, yes, we are prepared for it. And when Joshua said, all right, but you are now cursed in the sense of you are restricted, like the soil in the, in Eden when man sinned was cursed. Eh, eh, they were now restricted to being servants, hewers of war- wood, water. They said, yes. Humble servants and slaves, yes. So Joshua said, and what is more, you'll not only be hewers of wood and drawers of water to the, uh, Israelites, but you'll be servants of the altar of God. For all the menial work that had to be done with the water, you needed gallons of water for those sacrifices and keep the place clean, and the wood, and all sorts of other work. They said, yes. It looks better than the alternative, though. It does, doesn't it? Yeah. Alternative was to be destroyed. Yeah. Ha ha. Now, excuse me, just a little interlude. I gather you were saved. Thank you. I don't know whether you were afar off when you got saved or whether you were near. Nowadays there's salvation for both those that are afar off and those that are near in the spiritual sense. And you got saved to avoid eternal destruction in the lake of fire. And you promised to serve the Lord, but you didn't really mean it. If the conditions were being saved were that from now on you would not regard your life as your own, but you would give it to the Lord to serve him forever. Were you saved on those terms? Have we shown ourselves genuine believers? But from our time of our conversion, our being forgiven, we could be described as servants to the altar. For the love of Christ constrains us. If one died for all, and all died, that they that live should henceforth not live to themselves, but to him that died and rose again for them. Judged by that criterion of genuineness. Are we genuine, gentlemen? We gent- gen- genuinely repented and accepted Christ as Lord. You say, okay, you're making a case for the Gibeonites, okay, but they were a rascally lot, and they told a lot of lies, and that's in- unpardonable. Yeah, well, we'll come to that in a minute. One final question. Did they stick to their promise? Any evidence you know of that the Gibeonites stuck to their promise? Go on, quote me the place in the historical books where the Gibeonites are referred to. Paul. Where? Yes? First Samuel twenty. First Samuel twenty? Twenty one. Twenty one. And what does it say there, sir, if you will tell us? Second Samuel. 2 Samuel? 2 Samuel one. 2 Samuel 21. Well, tell us, please, uh, spare my voice and tell us what is said about Gibeonites there, anyway. I just quoted the reference you wanted. I don't know that does anything to say. It does, it has more to say there about the protection of the Gibeonites than what the Gibeonites themselves. Oh. Well, you see, it says, doesn't it, in chapter twenty one of second Samuel, there was a famine in the days of David, three years, year after year, and David sought the face of the Lord, and the Lord said, it is for Saul and for his bloody house, because he put to death the Gibeonites. And the king, that is David, called the Gibeonites and said unto them, now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the remnant of the Amorites, and the children of Israel had sworn unto them. And Saul sought to slay them in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. And David said unto the Gibeonites, What shall I do for you? Wherewith shall I make atonement that you may bless the inheritance of the Lord? And the Gibeonites replied they didn't want any monetary compensation. They asked to be allowed to choose the sentence that should be passed on the king and his sons. Here were the Gibeonites then, and to the time of Saul, at this juncture, Israel had honored the covenant that they'd made with Gibeon. Saul, in a flurry of macho, uh, uh, uh, and jingoism had broken that covenant and slain some of the Gibeonites. And God had intervened and sent a famine because of it. It was God's promise to them. They were in Israel. Their function still in Israel, to be servants of the altar, with hills and of wood and drawers of water. But centuries later, after Joshua, in the time of Saul, when Saul broke that covenant, God inflicted a famine, a drought on them, rebuking God's covenant. Well, I would only add the positive there, that the Gibeonite response at that point was, they answered the king that the man that consumed us and that devised against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in the coast of Israel. In other words, they at that point, even this late, placed a value in remaining in the coast. That's right, yeah. They did indeed. So now I've come at least in my, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, my, uh, uh, case for the Gibeonites to say that they had heard what Moses said. They had acted on it in the sense that they were prepared to meet the terms. They were prepared to be servants. And they agreed that they should be servants, and servants to the altar, and thus be incorporated into Israel. And thus they remained for centuries. And when Saul foolishly broke that covenant, God inflicted grievous penalty upon him. Two things remain. The reason why the cities that were near at hand were not to be spared was that if they were spared, they might teach Israel to practice their same paganism and idolatry and the immorality that went with it. The question is, though we don't have much evidence, I admit to you, did the Gibeonites teach Israel their pagan ways? We've no charge anywhere against them that they did, even though they were servants to the altar. Hello, someone over there got a hand up. Yeah, I think the opposite took place here, because now they're keepers of the altar, and Israel now has the opportunity to teach the Gideon. Yeah. About their God. Yes. Mm-hmm. Good, and now there's a question here. First Kings chapter three, the first high place you have mentioned is a Gibeon. Mm-hmm. That's right, yes. But that was the first high place that Solomon built. Mm-hmm. The only counter that it's also the place where the Lord That's right. Yeah, he did. Yes. And I- but I'm just saying the high places, that's where the- that's where all the idolatrous worship started, was at the high places. Mm-hmm. And so therefore, the- sometimes the Lord, and you see him blessing in spite of what we do, not because of what we do. Mm-hmm. Where did they learn about the high places if it wasn't possibly from the Gibeonites, because that's the place where Solomon built it first. Yes, that's where the, uh... From the Amorites, they were supposed to be destroyed. Yes, where the, uh, altar was placed, and S- uh, uh, Solomon went there to consult the Lord. Yes, and they were confused days, weren't they? Because the ark being in one place and the altar being in another, and so forth. We remember how the ark was taken in the days of, uh, Eli's priesthood and his sons went among the Philistines, came back to sundry houses and things, and then, uh, the tabernacle was at Shiloh, but the ark wasn't there, and the altar was at Gibeon. They were certainly confused days, that is to be granted, and high places were, in that sense, very dangerous places. Yeah, and you, sir? If the Gibeonites then presumably became proselytes to Judaism, if you will, or at least subject to the law of Moses, then they would, just like any Israelite, have been subject to the condemnations and judgments and punishments of idolatry that any Israelite would. Oh, surely they would. If they did, if any of them Mm-hmm. did practice idolatry, then they would be put to death as individuals, not as a nation. All right. Well, now, oh, someone's got a, someone there. Yes, a comment, brother. Uh, you mentioned, uh, differences are also important, and I do preach this as a picture of the gospel, so I want to say amen. But there are differences. We are far off or made near. We come on the grounds of not pretending to be near to God, but must have meant we're not a people, we're far off. So there are also some differences. And then opening night, you said sometimes passages have different levels. Mm. And I wonder if there's also a legitimate level here. The Gibeonite level is a picture of the salvation and covenant promises of God. But on the people of God level, could there still be a level of practical application, you said, of not seeking the counsel of the Lord? Could there be more than one level? Oh, well, surely, surely. Uh, uh, uh, uh, and that is important. And uh, uh, the two things are important. One, that the people didn't seek counsel of the Lord. Two, that the, uh, approach of the Gibeonites was sheer pretense, not true, lies. You see, they made out they came from afar off, obviously heard what Moses had said, and, uh, made out that they came from far off when they were just around the corner. Yes, you want? And Rahab shows that if they had come and made a genuine appeal, there was nothing in the proviso about Jericho that would lead Rahab to think she could get mercy other than the character of God and throwing herself Mm-hmm. at his mercy. Mm-hmm. So she wasn't at all duplicitous in her approach. Mm-hmm. She said, I've been loyal to you, be loyal. That's right. Though dear Rahab told one big lie. Yeah. She didn't have spies. Oh, about the spies, you'll see. When the ki- the police came and asked where they were, she said they'd gone out. Well, she put them on the roof, you'll see, yes. So she told a lie. Yes. Yes, I was wondering how the Gibeonites would have heard of Moses' words uttered on the other side of Jordan, given only to the nation of Israel, uh, but perhaps the answer is in another question I had, which is when they wrote, uh, the book of the law of Moses on the altar of stones, uh, at Mount Ebal. Uh, I w- I was wondering at that time when you mentioned it, did they just write the Ten Commandments, or did they write out, uh, five books, which would be an enormous amount to write on stones? Yes, yes, yes. But if they did write this out, it would have contained the words of Moses we find in Deuteronomy. Yes. And that immediately precedes the league with the Gibeonites. Mm-hmm. That might be an explanation. Yes. And there are all sorts of possibilities, aren't there? Because with Israelite armies, uh, around and about and taking cities, that to think that no Israelite soldier ever said anything to the locals. I mean, we just don't know. We don't have evidence. Hello, there are two hands up now. You, sir? Judges chapter nineteen brings an awful scenario in the city of Gibeah, where the men of the city were perverted men in the crime that was brought upon the nation. Is it possible that there were those that stayed by the altar and were true, and that those of them were not true. Well, uh, uh, the Gibeah is a different place from Gibeon. Gibeah, those desperate behavior, Gibeah was, was done by Benjamites who were supposed to be part of the people of God. Yes, too. In trying to put this together in my understanding and our understanding. Mm-hmm. Uh, and and I know there's conjecture here, but if the Gibeonites had heard of the way that Rahab, without complicity, was saved out of Jericho, then that, well, could have moved them to come without complicity. Mm-hmm. Believing in the mercy of the living God, it seems to me. Uh, at the same time, and I- I'm just saying that because if the salvation of the Gibeonites was a mistake, then on what ground, if the curse upon Jericho was even to the highest degree, as you said, of Deuteronomy twenty, There was utter destruction and no spoil was ever to be taken. On what ground did they then... what ground did they have for, for giving anybody in here? Yes. It's a very interesting question that, uh, the spies in, uh, Rahab's house, when they listened to her plea, forthwith and immediately swore an oath in the name of God. They didn't apparently have to conduct, uh, to contact Joshua at base. The very situation of a certain person seeking mercy and professing faith in the living God was enough for the spies, whoever they were. To annul the whole curse of the law. Yeah, that's right, you see. Amen. That's a much Uh, I just want to suggest in the context of the book of Joshua, it's at least worth noting that what you get at the end of chapter eight, just before the Gibeons, not only the description that Greg was reminding us of, it was the reading of the law in an open amphitheater. Mm-hmm. They preached the blessings and the cursings on Mount Ebal in Jerusalem. Oh, yes. Out loud. And it's difficult to think that the locals, uh, wouldn't have, um, uh, heard some of the detail. But now I shall have to, for time is is defeating me, I have to put to you the absolute basic question now, and listen to your response. The scripture actually says that the men ask not counsel of the Lord. And the seeming implication is that this was foolish. Uh, they should have taken counsel of the Lord. If they had asked counsel of the Lord, the Lord would have showed them that the Gibeonites were enacting a falsehood. They were near at hand. They were not afar off. That much, it seems to me, to be certain. Now, will you tell me, can we be certain, or do you feel certain, that had they asked counsel of the Lord, the Lord would have said, these are a lot of hypocrites. They're telling lies. You must not give them a, a covenant of peace. You must destroy them. Can we be certain that the Lord would have said that? I have a follow-up question to be certain, since it was recorded this way, and I say this respectfully, do we have to be certain? We don't have to be, sir. Thank the Lord, there are burdens we don't have to carry. Hello? I'm, I'm gonna say that we can in this sense, that we are certain that the city of Jericho was destined for destruction every now and then. But as you said, they made a covenant with Rahab on the spot, based upon her faith in, in, in the living God. And the Ammonites came, and their plea was on the basis of what God had already said in his word, in that sense, as a far off, pleading for mercy. Really, ultimately, that's what they were doing. It seems to me that the same God who honored the one would have honored the other. Yes. Well, someone here got a hand up. Uh, what I appreciate about the whole thing is it seems like the Gibeonites really exercised faith. They heard the word of God, they believed it, and they acted on it. And God is pleased by faith. And I think that, when you think about the hopeless situation of the Gibeonites have, the Israelites consulted the Lord, it would have been hopeless. The law was against them, there was no escape from it, but the Lord is a savior. He can find a way like he did for us. We had the law totally against us, no escape from that judgment, but he found a way to, for us to escape. Mm-hmm. I can't help thinking Psalm eighty four verse ten, thinking about the Gibeonites. It says, I would rather be a doorkeeper or servant in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. That's right, yes. Surely. Um, there's someone in a pink shirt over there. Just a quick, I think it might be worth pointing out that there is a difference in the faith between the Gibeonites and Rahab and whoever else was in her house at the time that was spared. They were, Rahab and her household were not made slaves, whereas the Gibeonites were. And that may be a reflection of the fact that the Gibeonites came with deception and Rahab didn't. I don't know, but. It was a condition. It was the condition for mercy of a city, that they, if they were to be spared, they could, must come out and be tributary. But, but even the princes and the people, by their reaction, show that they realize they made a mistake. Oh, surely they did. So if they, if they realized they made a mistake, how can we doubt that they made a mistake? Mm-hmm. Suppose the Gibeonites said that they were nearby people, then what would that happen? Pardon? Instead of saying the lie that we are from faraway place, suppose the Gibeonites said that, uh, we want to be your sa- your slaves, or they had made peace with them, tried to peace, make peace with them without saying the lie, what would have happened? Yes. Well, uh, uh, so, um, how do we know these are things that we cannot know for certain because they are conjectures? But that said, as you see, my, my own position relies heavily on this, that what happened in fact was God saved them? And saved them when the other Canaanite kings came against Gibeon, not against Joshua, came against Gibeon because it had gone over to Israel and professed faith in the God of Israel and accepted to be tributary to Israel. In our modern terms, they were converts, of course. And when the other Canaanite tribes attacked them for that, God himself saved them. So I grant all the moral questions and the uncertainties that are live with it, but I start by thinking myself, uh, somewhat overpowered by the fact that God not only saved them, but did spectacular miracles to save them. I conclude that God intended to save them. And that we cannot begin to think that God never did intend to save them and intended them to perish, but because of his people's stupidity, he was obliged to save them when he didn't want to. That I think, is an impossible position. If God intended to save them, he may not have approved of the way that the Israelites went about it, but he honored the oath that they swore, and he saved the Gibeonites. When we get time, I shall cite you evidence from every one of the six major parts of Joshua where this theme is, uh, uh, uh, expressed to let them live. It is here used twice with the Gibeonites. They decided to let them live. But the time is more than run away, and I haven't got all your questions about, um, Jericho and Ai, but we'll have to stop. Mm-hmm. And the t- the the the the program says we should have gone to eleven thirty five. We have, in fact, gone to eleven forty. So the next lecture will not begin before eleven fifty, according to the program here.