Audio restored with Diffio. Diffio processed the original archive recording to reduce noise and produce a cleaner listening version; the original stays available.
Speech quality score (model-estimated, SCOREQ): before 3.88 → restored 4.24
Use the player's Original switch to compare.How Diffio restores old speech recordings
I'm delighted to see you, gentlemen, and very impressed that some of you have endured me, you'll see, not only on Wednesday, but also on Thursday, and then again today. And, uh, this is a work of super irrigation, as they call it, on your part, you'll see, for which you will be rewarded with many indulgences. For my own part, I am a little bit uncertain of what my briefing is, because I was asked to come on this occasion and finish John.
You'll see. Not altogether sure how far I got when two or three years ago I studied John with you, and I got the impression that perhaps that I had got to the end of chapter ten, but I'm not quite sure, and finishing John in one fell swoop, uh, was, it would be a little difficult, you see. There is the uncertain possibility that there may be another, uh, Saturday available, uh, on my part, that is, i- in, uh, uh, the new year at some time. Uh, so what I would propose today, at any rate, is to talk about chapters eleven and twelve and then go on to talk about the arrest, the crucifixion, and uh, and the resurrection, and to make some suggestions as to how in John's record these things cohere, you see.
And thus leaving the upper room ministry, at least the detail thereof, because as I understand it, another and much, uh, more able, uh, expositor than I, uh, was with you last year, I think, and went through the upper room ministry. So that is my proposal to do now chapters eleven and twelve and then to start up again with the, uh, chapter eighteen. and work towards the end. And if we can do that today, then we shall have done something positive, shall we not?
Now, when I was with you last, I will have done, uh, and put some emphasis on the journeys that John records that our Lord made, uh, from the north to the south, down to Jerusalem, on the occasion of the feasts, and then, uh, back again north. And we will have studied three of those journeys that he made down to Jerusalem on the feasts and then back again north.
And the third of those journeys comes to its end at the end of chapter ten, verses forty, forty one, and forty two. And he went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John was at the first baptizing, and there he abode. And the place where John was at first baptizing, you notice the implication that John baptized at different places in the course of his career. And, uh, the place where he was at first baptizing is liable to have been Batenia, more to the north in Jordan, than eventually the position that he took when he came down, uh, into Judea, i- i- i- into the Jordan in that direction.
So here once more is our Lord at the end of chapter ten uh, after his visit to Jerusalem that begins in chapter seven. He has now gone back up north. The next and the final journey, you'll see, comes, uh, begins in John's record in chapter eleven verse fifty five. Now, the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and many went up to Jerusalem out of the country before the Passover to purify themselves. And now our Lord, uh, uh, begins to come to Jerusalem for what is his final visit.
You see, verse chapter twelve verse one, Jesus therefore, six days before the Passover, came to Bethany, and from Bethany, uh, uh, he went to Jerusalem, verse twelve. of chapter twelve. But this final visit is different from the others in that before he comes to Jerusalem at the feast, there is the story of the raising of Lazarus. We ought to notice, therefore, how that is integrated into the ongoing story, and particularly the story of the actual visit to Jerusalem.
You'll see, when you come to the end of the raising of Lazarus, verse forty five of chapter eleven. Many therefore of the Jews which came to Mary and beho- beheld that which he did, believed on him. But some of them went away to the Pharisees and told them the things which Jesus had done. The chief priests, therefore, and the Pharisees gathered a council and said, what do we? For this man doeth many signs. If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation.
At that juncture, a certain one of them, being high priest that year by name Caiaphas, advised them, with the special wisdom that he felt he had, that it was better that one man die for the people than the whole nation perish. It's more expedient for you, said he. He's a real high priest, but a real politician. And politicians, gentlemen, as you may be aware, or you soon will be, deal, uh, more with expedience than they do with principle, often, uh, often again. So here is John recording the fact that already, as a result of the raising of Lazarus and the belief that it produced, uh, numbers of people, that the, uh, Jerusalem authorities were determined to have him, uh, put to death.
As a result of that, uh, do you see, verse fifty three, fo- so from that day forth they took counsel that they might put him to death. Jesus therefore walked no more openly among the Jews, but departed thence into the country near to the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim, and there he tarried with his disciples. It is in that context that, uh, the final visit begins, and, uh, you- you will, uh, notice, do you see, uh, the intense interest that was produced, because as the people came down along the pilgrim routes from the north, they would have heard the story of the raising of Lazarus.
Verse fifty six, they sought therefore for Jesus and spake one with another as they stood in the temple, what think ye that he will not come to the feast? Now the chief priests and the Pharisees had given commandment that if any man knew where he was, he should show it, that they might arrest him. So the raising of Lazarus now appears to have been deliberate, the timing of it, by our Lord. Indeed, looking back to chapter eleven, he said, uh, to his disciples, uh, uh, that this sickness is not unto death, this is eleven verse four.
but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified thereby. Notice, if you'll forgive the word, that the whole thing was staged or arranged in the tactics and strategies of God. So that Lazarus would take sick, he should die, be buried, and then our Lord would raise him from the dead. And just at this juncture, when it would cause a tremendous interest and flurry and concern in Jerusalem, when our Lord eventually came to Jerusalem.
So you see that when our Lord eventually, uh, moved in on Jerusalem and chapter twelve verse one, came to Bethany, where they made him a supper, and Lazarus was there, do you see? We're told in verse nine of twelve, the common people therefore of the Jews learned that he was there, and they came not for Jesus' sake only, but they might see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead. Do you see? The tremendous interest that is now a- a- a- a- awakened, uh, by this event. And therefore, verse ten and eleven, but the chief priests took counsel that they might put Lazarus also to death, because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away and believed on Jesus.
And John hasn't finished emphasizing the matter of this publicity caused by Lazarus's death and resurrection. Uh, you'll see, look at verse seventeen. m At the end of the incident of our Lord riding on the ass into Jerusalem as Judah's ki- Judea's king, we're told in verse seventeen, the multitude therefore that was with him when he called Lazarus out of the tomb and raised him from the dead bear witness. So these were the people that had actually seen the event of the raising of Lazarus, and now they were with Christ, and they're said to be quite a throng of people, you see.
You will notice in chapter eleven, you'll remember that, how a lot of Jews had come to comfort Martha and Mary, and therefore they were there with their criticisms and then their astonishment when our Lord raised him from the dead. So this lot are witnessing to the populace in Jerusalem and the large number of pilgrims that w- did not witness the raising of Lazarus. The first lot are, are witnessing to them. For this cause, says verse eighteen, also the multitude went and met him, for that they had heard how that he had done this sign. And all I'm saying by these rather labored remarks is that John is integrating the story of the raising of Lazarus with this final journey to Jerusalem on the occasion of the Passover.
And it appears that our Lord had deliberately, uh, uh, and God certainly had deliberately organized it, do you see, uh, uh, as a preliminary to this fourth and final visit. So, what then about chapter eleven? What function does it do? It is the final sign of a series of seven signs that, according to chapter, uh, uh, twenty were written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and believing have life in his name.
There is another miracle recorded in John in chapter twenty one, and some people say that this was an addition that some later writer added in. That is not true, uh, that is not true. It certainly wasn't one of the seven. The miracle in chapter twenty one is not recorded so that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and believing have life in his name. It is written for believers, an example of how our Lord in his resurrection guides us still in the work that he gives us to do for him.
You'll see. The raising of Lazarus, however, is the last of the series of seven. What function does it have? I want to suggest to you that one of the functions that it was deliberately intended to have was this. Our Lord was going away on this first, on this final visit, he would be crucified, buried, then raised again and ascend into heaven. And you will see that the apostles, even, let alone Christians in general that had believed on him throughout the land, were not really expecting him to die.
And when our Lord in the upper room says to them, I'm going away, and sorrow has filled your heart because I said, they could scarcely believe it even then. And he had to tell them, it is expedient for you that I go away. And why it was expedient for them that he went away, you'll see. So that the upper room ministry, when one comes to it from thirteen to seventeen, is explaining to the apostles in the upper room why it was expedient for him to go away, and what was achieved within that context in his going away.
And the, uh, uh, brief title you might put a- uh- across it is, his going away was essential for their sanctification. Their sanctification depended upon the Holy Spirit's coming. So that the upper room ministry is given over, in all its five sections, to their sanctification. And that is, um, uh, summed up by our Lord in his prayer in chapter seventeen, when he prays openly in front of his disciples to the Father, sanctify them through thy truth, thy word is truth.
So it was necessary for their sanctification that we shall, if ever we get to it, deal with in the, in the story of the upper room. But this one in eleven feels a similarly practical role. He was going away. Hmm. What would happen all down those years when he was away? What was the program? And the matter is, uh, touched on right from the very beginning of chapter eleven.
It is there said that this, uh, family, Martha, Mary, and Lazarus in Bethany, a family very much attached to the Lord. It was the Mary that eventually anointed the Lord's feet, uh, with with ointment. It was a family with whom Christ had stayed on occasions, witness Luke's record of it. And Lazarus grew sick. And so they sent a letter to our Lord, saying, he whom thou lovest is sick.
Notice the tact of the letter. It didn't say, Lazarus is sick, please come as quick as you can get here. No, no, no, no, don't talk to friends like that, do you? Um, uh, it just informed him that, that Lazarus, uh, do see, uh, um, uh, uh, he whom thou lovest, they said, is sick. Expecting, of course, that the love that our Lord had personally for them and Lazarus would, on learning that news that he was sick, he would come.
He didn't attempt to come. In fact, you'll see, verse uh six tells us that when he heard that Moses was sick, he stayed at the same, at the time, at that time, two days in the place where he was. Now, if you have been attending to the record of the miracles in John, you will find this a little bit disconcerting, because the second miracle that John records, the end of chapter four, is the story of the royal official's son. The royal official, uh, you'll see, uh, worked in the palace, perhaps at Tiberias, or when later it was up in Baneia.
His son was sick, was on the point of death, and he had come to our Lord, uh, uh, to ask him to heal his son. The boy was sick, and the man believed that Jesus could heal him, but Jesus had been down at the feast at Jerusalem, and there's no way of contacting him. Uh, do you see? Then the man heard that our Lord had come back up to Galilee. Now there was a chance. He was in Cana of Galilee. So the royal official came from Capernaum, down by the lake, and up over the hills to Cana, and asked the Lord to come and heal his son.
And our Lord had said to him, uh, the trouble with you lot around here is that except you see signs and wonders, you will not believe. And the man, if I may paraphrase him, said, Lord, look, uh, uh, my son is desperately sick. Look, don't stop here and talk theology. We can talk theology later on, a- a- after he's better, you see, but he's desperately sick. Uh, uh, uh, please, if you don't mind, come at once, lay your hands on him. And our Lord said, my good man, you have misunderstood me. Uh, your son is already better.
My son is already better? Yes. You asked me to, didn't you, to heal him? I've healed him. That put the man on the spot because he couldn't see that the boy was well. And now our Lord, uh, was a, uh, uh, demonstrating a, a thing that we hadn't been told before in John, that he could heal at a distance. And the man had to decide whether he would believe Christ or not. And to his credit, he believed and got up and went home and didn't get home till the next day, apparently.
I don't know where he stayed the night, in a hotel or under a bush somewhere. It wasn't till he got home that he actually saw the evidence. Yes, the boy was well. And to satisfy his curiosity, he said, but tell me, he said to the servants now, just at what hour did he he he he he begin to get better? And they said, well, it was yesterday about the seventh hour or something, and he worked it out and counted. It was at the very moment when, and this becomes important, when he believed? No, it didn't say that. It was at the moment when Jesus said, thy son lives.
A miracle that shows that our Lord could heal at a distance. And gentlemen, if you have given heed to that miracle and tucked it under your belt or wherever you tuck ideas, it, you see, um, you will say, well, obvious what he's going to do here. Gets a note from Bethany that Lazarus, whom he loves, is sick, desperately sick. Well, he doesn't need to go, you'll say. Stays two days in the place where he was because he can hear at a distance. He'll just say the word and, and, and, and Lazarus will be. Simple, isn't it? Two days later, he said to the apostles, you see, or another day later, Lazarus has fallen asleep.
And they said, oh Lord, he'll do well if he's fallen asleep, you see, because he'll recover. No, he said, I- what I mean is he's dead. And then he added, I'm glad I wasn't there. What on earth is he saying? If he could heal at a distance, well, he, he needn't go, but he could have healed him. And you say to yourself, perhaps, oh well, he didn't heal him, but now he'll speak a word and, and, uh, raise him from the dead at a distance. He didn't do that either. But he said, well, let's go to Judea.
And when he got to Judea, Martha, uh, uh, to Bethany in Judea, Martha came out to meet him. Her first words? Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. Our Lord said, your brother shall rise again. I know that, says Martha. She was a good Pharisee, believed in the resurrection. I know he shall rise at the last day. Lord, that's a bit irrelevant. If you had been here, he wouldn't have died to start with.
With the implied, why didn't you come? Her faith, good old Martha, remained triumphant. Lord, even now I believe that whatever you ask of God, he will give it to you. When she was done talking to Christ, Ma- uh, Mary came out. She wasn't the theologian that Martha was. All she could manage as she collapsed at his feet was to get out the word, Lord, if you had been here, my brother had not died.
And our Lord was moved when the crowd said, hmm, he could heal a blind man. Why couldn't he have healed this chap and stopped him from dying? Supposed to love him, wasn't he? And our Lord groaned in spirit because now it raised the question of did he really love Lazarus? Well, he raised him from the dead, as we know. And of course, that miracle of reviving, uh, uh, Lazarus was, like the other miracles, a sign.
The multiplying of the loaves and fish, for instance, was a sign that Jesus is the bread of life. This miracle of raising Lazarus was a sign. What do you suppose it was a sign of, gentlemen? Pardon? Yes, it's a sign of the resurrection of the life. And when will the resurrection happen? Been happening every other day, or every other century, or what? Well, come on, you, you have beliefs about this.
I do really think you have. When is the resurrection going to take place? Yes, when he comes back. He is not going to stage it in his absence. The New Testament is insistent. The resurrection will take place at the coming of the Lord. The Lord himself shall descend from heaven at a sh- with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and the trump of God. The resurrection of the believer will not take place in our Lord's absence.
He will not sit on the throne of heaven and suddenly speak the word, and all the dead rise. One Thessalonians four and Corinthians fifteen. There a- a- a- a- a- and uh, we which are alive and remain, and the dead at his coming. So this sign of raising Lazarus is a sign of the re- great reality, the resurrection and the reuniting of the living and the dead.
When the Lord comes. And therefore the demonstration that Martha, uh, sent the letter to him, uh, Mary, that heal thy lovers is sick, a prayer for Lazarus's recovery, healing from his sickness, and our Lord stayed away and let Lazarus die and then raised him when he came. What a simple parable that is, isn't it? What, oh, it's a miracle, but it's a parable, of course. And now he, it is put here to prepare the Lord's people for our Lord's going away, crucified, risen, ascended back to heaven.
What happens now when our loved ones get sick? Well, of course, we send a message to the Lord, don't we? What ho? Dear brother so-and-so has been taken into hospital with a heart attack. And if it pleased the Lord, he will give him recovery, and often he does. But ultimately he doesn't, does he? Most believers, am I not right in saying it, since, um, the Lord ascended to heaven, most believers, um, died, and so? I'm not denying that the Lord sometimes answers our prayers and heals our loved ones when they're sick.
He does that. But ultimately, until the Lord comes, we shall all die. There's no need to get upset about it. Look at the pattern. The dead will be raised, reunited with the living, when the Lord comes. Mm-hmm. So this sign for Martha and Mary and Lazarus was also a parable for us, so that we should not be disturbed.
When our Lord, in his absence, allows our loved ones to die. It holds out the promise of his second coming. He will come again. And as far as that is concerned, it is delightful to see that when he came, as he did, you'll see, uh, um, at the end of, uh, chapter, uh, eleven and twelve verse one. Jesus therefore, six days before the Passover, came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, whom Jesus raised from the dead, and they made him a supper.
Allow your imagination to dwell upon it, gentlemen. For a moment, that brief moment in history, when Martha and Mary, plus the disciples, plus the Lord, and Lazarus now raised from the dead, and they made him a supper. There shall come another supper, shall there not? The Lamb's bridal supper. The dead raised, the living changed, and with the host of the disciples of all the age.
There shall be a supper. And from that supper on the morrow, he came as king to Jerusalem. And the poor old Pharisees were driven to exclaim, the whole world has gone after him. Gentlemen, scripture is like a many colored, many threaded tapestry. It has meaning at different levels.
I'm suggesting, therefore, the simple fact that the sign in chapter eleven is meant to stand for us, all believers, all down that l- l- age when our Lord is absent and doesn't yet come, for our comfort and encouragement. Do you see? One day the Lord will come. But it's our Lord setting by his parable, by his miracle, the program, so that we shall not be upset down through the years.
Now, as to the theology of it, let me quote you the words that our Lord spoke to Martha. Uh, this is, uh, the conversation, verses twenty one onwards of chapter eleven. Martha therefore said unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. And even now I know that whatsoever thou shalt ask of God, God will give thee. Jesus saith unto her, thy brother shall rise again. Martha said unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
She's a good Pharisee, she was. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection and the life. Now come very important words. He that believeth on me, though he die, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth on me shall never die. Believest thou this. Those words, as you know, gentlemen, are subject to much dispute among the commentators. And the view that I myself hold, um, is, uh, thought to be highly incorrect by the majority of commentators.
So my package carries a health warning, you see. The common understanding of it is that our Lord was saying, uh, I'm the resurrection and the life, you'll see, he that believeth on me, even though he were spiritually dead. And the good authorized version has it that way. Anybody own up to having the authorized version in front of him? Yes, you have? Yes, yes. Just read me that verse in the authorized version, would you be so kind? Jesus said on the earth, I am the resurrection and the life, should I believe in me though he were dead, yet shall he live? Yes. Uh, though he were dead, yet shall he live.
And many follow that idea, even if they've got a modern translation, to say even though he were dead in spiritual, uh, uh, dead in spirit, in spirit, spiritual death, in trespasses and in sins, the one he believes, he receives new life. But that is perfectly true, isn't it? I mean, Ephesians two says it. We were dead in trespasses and sins, and God made us alive in Christ. Yes? So multitudes take that verse to mean that. And then there's the next bit, and whosoever liveth and believeth on me shall never die, the eternal security of the believer. He that liveth and has been saved and born again, and therefore now he lives, do you see?
Um, uh, um, and carries on believing, of course, and thus shows he's a genuine believer. He shall never die. He has eternal security. And gentlemen, if you should decide that that is what the verses mean, you have the weight of generations of expositors on your side. Do you see? There is a little matter that the Greek doesn't actually say that, but never mind. Do you see? Uh, allow me to do my honest best to point out what the Greek says.
This is chapter eleven and verse twenty five. There we are, eleven twenty five. He said to her, did Jesus, Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life. He that believeth on me, even if he die. Not even though he were dead.
This is a Greek eris subjunctive in the normal way of a Greek with an introducing it, referring to the future. He that believeth on me, even if he die. Notice that. What do you mean, if he die? Well, not all believers will. Some will. The majority will, but not all will.
We shall not all die. And I have good scripture support for that. There's one Corinthians fifteen. Uh, uh, we shall not all die, but we shall all be changed. But he that believeth on me, even if he die, yet shall he live. What do you mean live? Well, it's in Greek, it can be for live again. How do I know that? Well, let me, uh, cite you an example of it, also in the words of John, and this is the Revelation chapter twenty.
mhm Mm-hmm. This is Revelation chapter twenty and verse four. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and from the word of God, and such as worshiped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their for- forehead and upon their hand, and they lived. There's no doubt what it means, because they'd just been beheaded, or previously been beheaded.
I saw them that had been beheaded. In spite of that, they lived. Meaning they were raised, of course. How can we, uh, confirm that? They lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. The rest of the dead lived not, that is, would not be raised until the thousand years were finished. Don't let it worry you, gentlemen.
Even if you think I'm a, a, I'm a, a heretic for saying these things, don't let it worry you all that, because, you know, by your exerted efforts and combined efforts, I might be cured from my heresy. But this is what I'm suggesting to you. One, our Lord said, he that believeth on me, even if he die. Pray notice the even. Even if he die. Why put it that way? Because not all believers will. We shall not all die. Yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth carry on, carries on living.
What do you mean? Well, Paul put it very well, one Corinthians, uh, 1 Thessalonians four, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not precede them that are asleep. So the he that, uh, uh, liveth, and we're talking about believers, of course. There'll be a lot of folks alive when the Lord comes for his people. They won't be taken nor changed. It's he that believeth and, uh, he that whosoever liveth and believeth on me shall never die.
Why not? Well, because the Lord will come, and the living will be caught up with the dead that have been raised. That, at least, gentlemen, is what I think the verses mean. Uh, do you see, don't agree with me, uh, uh, uh, very quickly, do you see, because it is much disputed. And it is said that our Lord could never have said that in his life. I mean, that wasn't revealed until it came to the Apostle Paul. And if you're convinced by that argument, you will be convinced, of course, but... if our Lord was the Son of God incarnate, he didn't have to wait for a revelation to be made to Saint Paul before he expressed it.
This is the pattern that our Lord is laying down by this fi- this final sign to prepare his people for his going away and his absence until he come. And what happens, therefore, in between time when believers gets ill and they die. That is my first thesis, so to speak. That, um, chapter eleven and the sign therein is preparing the people, Martha and Mary and Lazarus, and all who should follow for our Lord's going away and his eventual coming again.
Let me leave it there because you have ten minutes, I think, to, for questions and discussions. Let me ask, have I made myself clear as to what I, what I think? Moderately clear. Mm-hmm. And if you don't agree with the cha- with the interpretation of, uh, verse twenty five and twenty six, it still doesn't affect the fact that the raising of Lazarus was a sign, like all the others were a sign.
The sign of the feeding of the five thousand with loaves and fishes was a sign of something bigger. The sign of the raising of Lazarus was a sign of something bigger, as you see, because Lazarus eventually died, you know. Mm-hmm. His raising was a sign of the bigger thing that will happen when the Lord comes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, this might be a bit off topic, just a wee bit.
Um, what then happens to those who do die? Where are they? Where are they? Uh, uh, believers who die, where are they? I think, uh, that we're wise, at least for myself. I, uh, I'm of the simple-minded, and I cling to what the phraseology of scripture is. Um, says Paul, well, we can start before, can't we, with the dying thief. Today shalt thou be with me.
He doesn't say to the dying thief, today, my boy, your body will be put into the common pit, do you see, but your soul will be with me, or your spirit will be with me. He doesn't trouble to define it further. He says, today you will be with me. And when Paul comes to talk about this matter in Philippians, having a desire to depart and to be with Christ. Notice the phraseology, to be with Christ.
I shall be with Christ. Um, Two Corinthians five: in this body we are absent from the Lord, though we know the Lord is with us in other- another sense. But in this body we are absent from the Lord, but absent from the body... Yeah, we shall be present with the Lord. He doesn't say that my soul will be present with the Lord. He just says I shall be with the Lord. Mm-hmm. The word he uses is a word you would use nowadays of a commercial traveler.
He's away from home in London. He might be in a very posh hotel, he probably is because he's on office expenses, but, uh, do you see, he he's i- i- away from home, and now he's looking forward to get back to home to be with his wife and children. And, uh, uh, they are the kind of words that Paul uses in Greek. I- in this body, we're away from home. Present in the body, therefore absent from the Lord. Absent from the body, we are present with the Lord. And Peter, not to be outdone by Paul, he says, uh, uh, uh, to Peter chapter one, I must, uh, I- I'm telling you these things and, and, and really shaking you up and, and gonna make sure that you remember it when I'm gone, for I must shortly, now listen to him, I must shortly put off this tabernacle, as the Lord Jesus had shown me.
Do you see this body is a tabernacle, a tent. Paul uses the same idea in two Corinthians five. If the taberna- this tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building. Tabernacle, a tent is easily collapsible. And starting from the top down, some of us, uh, give evidence that the old tabernacle is wearing up for the, uh, and, uh, soon it will be collapsed. I must put off this tabernacle. Listen to Peter talking. I must put off this tabernacle. I shall go out, be with the Lord.
So that, uh, if to answer your question, sir, I would simply reply we shall be with Christ. That is far better, anyway. Mm-hmm. I remember as a young Christian, uh, someone coming to speak, and, uh, he must have been quite knowledgeable in Greek and all that sort of thing. He read a passage of scripture. I wasn't going to say it at the time, and he said, no, it doesn't mean that. And he started going on to say what it meant. When I went home that evening, I said to myself, hang on, I thought the Bible was true. It's the infallible word of God. And this guy tonight, you know, cut the tripe out of it.
He just, that's not right. This is what it means. And I think for gospel preaching and that, it's a very dangerous thing to do, especially if there's young believers around. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Criticize. That's what it came over like. We just sort of criticized. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Yes. Uh, we have to guard our lips, don't we? And think not only of what we're saying, but what people will take out of what we're saying. That's why in most assemblies, uh, before folks get to the final, um, uh, stage of Bible class, they teach them very, very, as they can possibly understand, they teach them about the textual criticism of the New Testament, don't they, the manuscripts.
That's why they do it, you see, so that people shall know all this business about the translation and this, that, and the other, and the manuscripts and so on. Do you know what? Don't say this outside this hall, whatever you do, I say you'll have my, uh, head off. But last Saturday, I took a, a party, or I was taken by a party of, I think, five or six really Christian gentlemen, they were, and some of long-standing, and I took them down to the Chester Beatty Library in Dublin to show them the early manuscripts of the New Testament. Do you know what?
Before the day was over, they confessed to me, like as if I'd been a, a, a, a, a, a Catholic priest, uh, the confessional, that they had never been to see it before. Just you imagine that. Believers in the verbal inspiration of scripture, living within a hundred miles of some of the earliest copies of the New Testament existing on this planet, and never been to see them. It's very curious, that isn't it? Wouldn't you think it's very odd? How on earth would you explain it? Mm-hmm.
I think, David, that the, I know you, you, that's a rhetorical question. If I share a comment, I think it is the case that in our problems here, um, the authorized version we know is taken as being the verbally inspired word. And I mean, we have had little, not not major difficulties, but we've had, you get a difficulty and you say, well, actually, if you look at the Greek, uh, it says something slightly different from what the the authorized version translates. Uh, and and you do see some people sort of getting really quite nervous about that. Yes, yes.
Uh, because they have this and this only. Yes, I try, yeah. Beneath that. Mm-hmm. or anything that departs from the actual words on the page of the Bible. Yes, that's right, yeah. Mm. A little bit of nervousness. Mm-hmm. Yes, and that's why we do have to be very careful. Very careful. To upset people's faith in the inspiration of scripture is, is a very bad thing to do, do you see? One has to therefore be aware, do you see, of things. But, uh, do you see, that's why, and nowadays at any rate, in the Bible classes eventually, you should prepare people.
They're going to face it when they get out in the world. That we get the nearly inspired version of the NIV or something like that, and they will wonder which, which one. Well, it They need to know. They need to know, or it can be worse than that. Uh, last week, was it, or the week before, uh, Roger Bolton on BBC Radio 4, is becoming increasingly anti-Christian, is Radio four— um, uh, had a program in which he, uh, pointed out this sh- the fact that the so-called missing leaves of the big New Testament manuscript Alexandrinus A, uh, that were discovered, uh, do see, by the monks in the monastery at Mount Sinai, do see, some thirty or forty years ago.
These dear monks, they opened a door somewhere, and lo and behold, behind it were s- uh, reported at the time three or four magnificent manuscripts they didn't know were there. Manuscripts of the sort of Vaticanus B and Alexandrinus A, and a whole book of Saint John Climacos, dear soul, eh, that uh, uh, hitherto we only knew in title. We didn't have a copy of the book, but there was one, you'll see. And, uh, uh, seeing the monks in Mount Sinai are Greek Orthodox, then the Greek government, uh, controls the whole thing, do you see?
And I happened to be in Dublin at a function around about that time, and there was a Greek ambassador there, so I sidled up to him and gently suggested that, uh, his government, being a very wise government, uh, could get to itself great praise if it saw to it that these things were published as soon as might be, because the Dead Sea Scrolls, they came Four, they were, the publication of them was delayed, caused an absolute, uh, a furore in the end and a scandal, do you see? But they haven't been right till now, anyway. So this is about thirty years later, but still they're going to be published.
And Roger Bolton informed the world. Then, of course, now we have these, uh, manuscripts, and of course now we know, and I mean that shows, you see, that there were no originals anywhere, uh, and uh, and uh, uh, and uh, just that people made up stories here and recorded a few stories there, and it gradually grew like Topsy, you see. Uh, uh, uh, and there was no original anyway. And he called as a witness Bart Ehrman. Now, Bart Ehrman, alas, was a protege of Bruce Metzger, the famous textual critic who is a, was a believer. He's now dead, you see?
Eh, do you see? But um, uh, one of his students who professed to be a believer and a born again man, and he, he uh trained him, and now he's become a textual critic in his own right, and he published a book. Do you see? Uh, as far as the textual critic uh tism goes and the knowledge, it is, uh, not without its faults, but it is reasonable. But added to the book was his own, uh, uh, personal statement that he used to be a born again believer, but this has, uh, shown him there's sort of nothing in it anyway, and he's given it all up and attacks the inspiration of scripture and the authority of scripture.
And here was Roger Bolton on BBC Four telling the world as though it were actual fact, you see, and and Bart Ehrman, you see, he used to be a born again believer, but then he started to study textual criticism and and he is no longer a born again believer. He's given all that up. Yeah, if we're going to to to uh uh equip our young folks, go out into this world, well, one of the things we could do is to give them some facts, surely, about the way we get script- the way we get the scriptures. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Right, Hosa, I think we are now within our limits of the whatever it was. We have to cease.
